200TDI Crank, No Start - Investigation Thread

[s8ndst0rm]

Adding a thread here for a way to log progress and hopefully help others in future.

My 91 Defender 200TDI (which I now have learned contains a Disco engine) is failing to start after I've replaced the steering shaft and radiator - doing the first job caused me to break the radiator for anyone wondering

I've obviously knocked or done something while doing these jobs which is causing the 90 to not start.

It will crank, but never kicks into a start.

I won't have time to investigate until later this afternoon, so any thoughts or ideas much appreciated in the meantime.

Plan:

- Check power to fuel injector pump - Confirmed wire from behind ignition is putting power here on start
- Replace small hose from fuel injector pump to fuel rail (?) as the other one has a split - Done
- Check we're getting fuel to the injector pipes on crank by removing them from the injector
- .....

Thanks to @Anaconda who's helped me up to this point.

s8ndst0rm

 

[Anaconda]

The small pipe is fuel leak off pipe to the pump.
I sent you a pm but basically you need to check for fuel going to lift pump, going to filter, going to injection pump.
It needs continuous 12v at stop solenoid to let fuel through.
When you are confident that you have fuel going to injection pump and confident you have continuous 12v then the solenoid is worth changing the solenoid. Bosch one is cheap enough.
I was advised a clear fuel pipe from filter to injection pump is a good idea, it is, you can then watch for fuel without dismantling.

 

[miktdish]

The 'power to the injector pump' actually goes to a solenoid/switch that opens when the ignition is turned on (and 12V is supplied) and closes (cutting off the fuel to the pump) when the ignition is turned off and 12V is removed.
It's what stops the engine running. The solenoid has a 1 wire connection and relies on the earth through the pump body and engine to complete the circuit.
The solenoid (#RTC6702) is not an expensive item to replace and can fail.
Typical prices are from £10 to £20 for aftermarket and £25 to £30 for OEM/Bosch (which i'd reccommend you get).

Solenoid - Fuel Cut Off - Injector Pump - Tdi | Def - Ds1 - RRC

RTC6702 - Britpart, Allmakes and Land Rover options for RTC6702 Solenoid - Fuel Cut Off - Injector Pump - Tdi | Def - Ds1 - RRC - EXPRESS Shipping - UK, EU and Worldwide.

www.lrdirect.com

 

[s8ndst0rm]

The 'power to the injector pump' actually goes to a solenoid/switch that opens when the ignition is turned on (and 12V is supplied) and closes (cutting off the fuel to the pump) when the ignition is turned off and 12V is removed.
It's what stops the engine running. The solenoid has a 1 wire connection and relies on the earth through the pump body and engine to complete the circuit.
The solenoid (#RTC6702) is not an expensive item to replace and can fail.
Typical prices are from £10 to £20 for aftermarket and £25 to £30 for OEM/Bosch (which i'd reccommend you get).

Solenoid - Fuel Cut Off - Injector Pump - Tdi | Def - Ds1 - RRC

RTC6702 - Britpart, Allmakes and Land Rover options for RTC6702 Solenoid - Fuel Cut Off - Injector Pump - Tdi | Def - Ds1 - RRC - EXPRESS Shipping - UK, EU and Worldwide.

www.lrdirect.com

I've confirmed power is going to this. Any way to bypass it to rule it in or out of the tests?

 

[s8ndst0rm]

I am also confirmed to be getting a click on the solenoid when power is applied.

 

[Anaconda]

I've confirmed power is going to this. Any way to bypass it to rule it in or out of the tests?

You can take the solenoid off, take the little plunger out, put the solenoid back in and effectively you will have an open flow of fuel.
Although my advise would be to change it if it's suspect as it is fiddly to change, involving grinding bits off spanners.
You need to test fuel first to make sure it's getting to the injection pump.

 

[miktdish]

I've confirmed power is going to this. Any way to bypass it to rule it in or out of the tests?

Think about it ... if you 'bypass it', how will you stop your engine ?
You can put a 'secret switch' in line with it as a deterrent against theft, with no fuel the engine won't start.

 

[s8ndst0rm]

Think about it ... if you 'bypass it', how will you stop your engine ?
You can put a 'secret switch' in line with it as a deterrent against theft, with no fuel the engine won't start.

Only thinking during the diagnosis process @miktdish rather than waiting on a part.

 

[marjon]

I am also confirmed to be getting a click on the solenoid when power is applied.

Then before you worry about it further, if it clicks (if its working)and you have LP fuel to the injector pump then you should have fuel at the injectors so shirley thats the next test step.

If you have fuel in and no fuel out then even though its clicking it isnt working.

I dont know the engine but it sounds pretty easy to check.

J

 

[Anaconda]

Might be useful for understanding the system.

 

[miktdish]

Only thinking during the diagnosis process @miktdish rather than waiting on a part.

There are only a few things you can do without specialist tools that cost a fortune.

So lets go over it ... (although I see you have been advised in previous posts).
I am presuming that you know what these bits are ??

1) Undo the fuel line that comes from the lift pump where it enters the fuel filter and either manually lift the lever on the side of the pump or spin the engine with the starter motor.
Fuel should 'squib' out of the pipe you have disconnected.
If it doesn't you need a new lift pump.

2) Replace the fuel line from the lift pump.
Remove the output of the filter and repeat - fuel should 'squib' out indicating that your filter is OK.

3) Replace the pipe on the fuel filter.
Remove the pipe that goes from the fuel filter to the Fuel injector Pump (FiP).
Spin the Engine (or pump the lift pump manually) and you will see fuel 'squib' out the connector.

4) Remove the solid fuel line connector from the top of 1 ot the injectors.
Check the 12V is 'on' the stop solenoid.
Turn the engine over and fuel (at high pressure) will rush out of the connector.
If it doesn't check the solenoid - best to replace it IMHO.

5) Clean up all around the fuel lines you have disconnected etc,
Spin the engine on the started and look for leaks/seepage.
If no leaks are detected then then something more complex is stopping your engine from firing.

Pressure is important, The FiP should produce around 200 to 250 bar (3000 to 3750 psi).
Timing is important (there is no point injecting fuel if the piston is starting its exhaust stroke).

You need specialist equipment to measure the output pressure of the FiP.
You need more skill and knowledge than you seem to have to set up the timing.

 

[s8ndst0rm]

There are only a few things you can do without specialist tools that cost a fortune.

So lets go over it ... (although I see you have been advised in previous posts).
I am presuming that you know what these bits are ??

1) Undo the fuel line that comes from the lift pump where it enters the fuel filter and either manually lift the lever on the side of the pump or spin the engine with the starter motor.
Fuel should 'squib' out of the pipe you have disconnected.
If it doesn't you need a new lift pump.

2) Replace the fuel line from the lift pump.
Remove the output of the filter and repeat - fuel should 'squib' out indicating that your filter is OK.

3) Replace the pipe on the fuel filter.
Remove the pipe that goes from the fuel filter to the Fuel injector Pump (FiP).
Spin the Engine (or pump the lift pump manually) and you will see fuel 'squib' out the connector.

4) Remove the solid fuel line connector from the top of 1 ot the injectors.Check the 12V is 'on' the stop solenoid.
Turn the engine over and fuel (at high pressure) will rush out of the connector.
If it doesn't check the solenoid - best to replace it IMHO.

5) Clean up all around the fuel lines you have disconnected etc,
Spin the engine on the started and look for leaks/seepage.
If no leaks are detected then then something more complex is stopping your engine from firing.

Pressure is important, The FiP should produce around 200 to 250 bar (3000 to 3750 psi).
Timing is important (there is no point injecting fuel if the piston is starting its exhaust stroke).

You need specialist equipment to measure the output pressure of the FiP.
You need more skill and knowledge than you seem to have to set up the timing.

Cheers @miktdish - I know where all these parts are. I will take a look at this tomorrow or Saturday when I have a free morning.