P38 Diesel Non Starter

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R

roady

New Member
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6
Hi fitted new in tank pump now cannot start the p38 i have tried the usual things i have fuel to filter and fip but not to injectors. fuel soleniod is clicking
and i have 12 volts when ign on and when cranking engine. i have a sync-mate for the edc so the becm is communcating with ecu but it will not start a nanocom evolution was tried on it.with fault code.
engine immobiliser link fault
type: to low. logged. current.intermittent.
water temp=186
occurance=15
but i believe that if the becm ecu has substituted codes the right ones can only be put in by testbook
the car has been off the road for over two weeks so any help or advice would be appreciated
 
Thanks for the reply Wammers i have used the syncmate and i get the solid blue light followed by solid green which should mean it is connecting the two can you set the ems code with a nano there is a three digit immobilisation code
 
roady said:
Thanks for the reply Wammers i have used the syncmate and i get the solid blue light followed by solid green which should mean it is connecting the two can you set the ems code with a nano there is a three digit immobilisation code
Click to expand...

EMS code should be four digits and is stored in the EDC ECU. Can be read with Nanocom and written to the BECM. But that is what your Syncmate is supposed to be doing. With Nanocom you can read the code in the BECM it MUST match the code stored in the EDC ECU. The engine cannot be immobilised if it was it would not crank.
 
Hi Wammers
plugged the nanocom in and it is definiatley only three digits in EMS EDC code and the same three in the BECM which you are right can be re-written but only to the BECM with
the nanocom have you got an idea whats wrong
 
wammers said:
EMS code should be four digits and is stored in the EDC ECU. Can be read with Nanocom and written to the BECM. But that is what your Syncmate is supposed to be doing. With Nanocom you can read the code in the BECM it MUST match the code stored in the EDC ECU. The engine cannot be immobilised if it was it would not crank.
Click to expand...
I always get confused with that, I thought the diesel would crank would crank but not start:confused:
 
roady said:
Hi Wammers
plugged the nanocom in and it is definiatley only three digits in EMS EDC code and the same three in the BECM which you are right can be re-written but only to the BECM with
the nanocom have you got an idea whats wrong
Click to expand...
If the syncmate gives a green, IMO it's unlikely to be a sync problem.
Check the ignition relay (I know it's a diesel), check you have power to the glowplugs, remove the relay for the in tank pump and jump it to make the pump run continuously as it only runs when the glowplugs are on or when cranking, try a squirt of Easy Start and see if it fires on that, it may just be an air lock in the system.
 
Datatek said:
I always get confused with that, I thought the diesel would crank would crank but not start:confused:
Click to expand...

If engine is disabled by alarm it will not crank. Needs EKA code. If EMS code is wrong it will crank but will not start. If he is getting glow lamps and MIL lamp relay 19 should be sound, that powers the ECU. But worth checking relays 15 and 19 for intermittent operation. As you say may be an air lock, pump will clear itself of air by running lift pump, but injector lines will take a considerable time to do that if injectors are not cracked open whilst cranking. Have never heard of a three digit EMS code. It is supposed as i understand it to be four digits between 0 and 6. But something new every day i suppose. :):)
 
wammers said:
.... Have never heard of a three digit EMS code. It is supposed as i understand it to be four digits between 0 and 6. But something new every day i suppose. :):)
Click to expand...
As I understand the EMS Code in the Diesel ECU is fixed and cannot be written to....the sync process read the ECU code and writes this value in the BeCM which can be written to....

Lets say, just suppose, the Diesel ECU is corrupted (Rare but at the end of the day it is only a 'computer' which is prone to failures) and has lost a digit (as can happen in the BeCM) all the Syncmate is doing is copying the corrupt 3 digits into the BeCM as it knows no different!

Just hypthetical !
 
Saint.V8 said:
As I understand the EMS Code in the Diesel ECU is fixed and cannot be written to....the sync process read the ECU code and writes this value in the BeCM which can be written to....

Lets say, just suppose, the Diesel ECU is corrupted (Rare but at the end of the day it is only a 'computer' which is prone to failures) and has lost a digit (as can happen in the BeCM) all the Syncmate is doing is copying the corrupt 3 digits into the BeCM as it knows no different!

Just hypthetical !
Click to expand...

Yes that is correct EMS code is fixed in ECM ECU at time of manufacture. And cannot be changed. Once set to robust mode every time the ignition is switched on the code is compared by the BECM to the code copied there. If all is well engine will run. If not it won't. Engine is immobilised every time ignition is switched off. And Remobilised every time it is switched on. Quite different from engine disabled which is an alarm function.
 
wammers said:
Yes that is correct EMS code is fixed in ECM ECU at time of manufacture. And cannot be changed. Once set to robust mode every time the ignition is switched on the code is compared by the BECM to the code copied there. If all is well engine will run. If not it won't. Engine is immobilised every time ignition is switched off. And Remobilised every time it is switched on. Quite different from engine disabled which is an alarm function.
Click to expand...
So what if the digits in the EDC are corrupt....all the Syncmate does is copy corruped data....would that cause an issue....or does it not matter what the data is as long as it is identical
 
Saint.V8 said:
So what if the digits in the EDC are corrupt....all the Syncmate does is copy corruped data....would that cause an issue....or does it not matter what the data is as long as it is identical
Click to expand...

Don't have a clue to be honest Ant. Can't see how the EMS code could have lost just one digit. Rick the pick or Irishrover may be able to answer that. They are the ECU BECM bods. I claim the fifth amendment. :D:D
 
the glow plug light comes on then off as usual,the engine check light does the same,i have
checked the ribbon fuse to the glow plugs o.k relays 15 & 19 are clicking when ignition switched on but not run a test accross relays themselves, would you open all the injector
lines at the same time when ive bled diesels before its been furthest from pump then work back, i think i will email BBS. for an answer to the 3 digit code.
thanks.
 
Just a thought. If the EDC is giving an invalid code on call, that is three rather than four digits, would it be worth powering down, leaving for a while and then trying again.

I may be wrong (probably am) but I assume that there is an eprom or similar that stores the value. They sometimes recover on a 'reboot'.

So, dis battery as per handbook. Disconnect EDC for a few hours. Reconnect and see if there are four digits.

G~
 
Thanks, i will try what you suggest, i have used easystart and the engine does fire up.
 
Saint.V8 said:
So what if the digits in the EDC are corrupt....all the Syncmate does is copy corruped data....would that cause an issue....or does it not matter what the data is as long as it is identical
Click to expand...
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. I did have it explained to me by Colin at BBS some time ago, so may not be 100% accurate. I think from memory that the BECM calls for the code from the EDC, the EDC responds by transmitting the code to the BECM, the BECM then compares the code it has received from the EDC with it's own stored code, if they agree the BECM then enables the EDC. There are potentially 4 digits but it may be possible for one digit to be blank, I can see no reason why that should not be possible as part of the code but who knows. I'd need to sit with a scope or data logger to be sure.
 
Datatek said:
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. I did have it explained to me by Colin at BBS some time ago, so may not be 100% accurate. I think from memory that the BECM calls for the code from the EDC, the EDC responds by transmitting the code to the BECM, the BECM then compares the code it has received from the EDC with it's own stored code, if they agree the BECM then enables the EDC. There are potentially 4 digits but it may be possible for one digit to be blank, I can see no reason why that should not be possible as part of the code but who knows. I'd need to sit with a scope or data logger to be sure.
Click to expand...

What he needs to do is use the Nanocom to read the immobilisation code in the ECM. Then look in BECM in diagnostic mode (key at position II) and see if they are the same. If they are then his problems lay elsewhere.
 
roady said:
the glow plug light comes on then off as usual,the engine check light does the same,i have
checked the ribbon fuse to the glow plugs o.k relays 15 & 19 are clicking when ignition switched on but not run a test accross relays themselves, would you open all the injector
lines at the same time when ive bled diesels before its been furthest from pump then work back, i think i will email BBS. for an answer to the 3 digit code.
thanks.
Click to expand...

Open all the injectors and crank. Nip up when they get fuel. Engine may start as you are doing this. Only a minute amount of fuel is feed past the delivery valves for each cylinder. It takes an inordinate amount of time to get enough pressure to crack the nozzles if the pipes are full of air.
 
A LONG shot but I had trouble with mine a few months back. Synch was OK but still wouldn't start. I used the Nanocom and went into the BECM Alarm section and disable passive immobilisation. It started! Could be worth a try if you're certain there's no airlock in the fuel lines.
 
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