P38 = 3x4?

Well, again, I think that my P38 is not working like it should do.

I have a previous post on here where I first thought something was not right.

Here it is for reference http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/off-road-capabilities-207668.html

Over the last few days I have been out in the snow in the P38. While on the whole it performed really well, we did manage to get stuck where other 4x4's where managing to get through. We had to be pulled out by a tractor in the end!

The tyres currently on the P38 are General Grabber AT's

This is my third P38 and all of the others performed flawlessly off-road especially in the snow and ice. I purchased my first P38 in 2010, when we had a lot of snow. There is a steep hill near where I live which in 2010 when the snow fell was basically an ice rink. That P38 had absolutely no problems getting up or down that hill. We even pulled up several cars that were stuck, including other 4x4's that could not make it. The tyres on this P38 were Pirelli Scorpions.

Now, when we got stuck on this snow/ice yesterday, I asked my partner to get out and check to see what wheels were spinning. She said that both rears were spinning, and the drivers front was also spinning, but the passenger front was doing nothing at all!

So this really does leave me to feel that there is something not right with the car. I did a check on the VC as in my previous post, it seems to work fine.

So maybe it is the front diff. Is there a way to check it?

Or am I completely nuts and does the P38 not allow all four wheels to spin at once?

Either way, the fact remains that my other P38's had no issues whatsoever off road, in the mud snow and ice.

You thoughts and help are as always very much appreciated.

Thanks

do you understand how open diffs work?

DiscoPol said:

do you understand how open diffs work?

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No, sadly I do not know how open diffs work. Thats why I have asked for help.

I dont mind making an idiot of myself as long as I end up understanding how this car is supposed to work.

If one front wheel is spinning it means there is nothing wrong with the front diff or the VCU. IF both rears are spinning at the same rate the TC will not activate. Obviously the car is pre 99 without four wheel TC or the spinning front would be braked to send power to the stationary wheel. So basically no grip both rears, no grip on spinning front, grip on stationary front or a brake binding. One front could not be spun if there was no connection to the other side.

wammers said:

If one front wheel is spinning it means there is nothing wrong with the front diff or the VCU. IF both rears are spinning at the same rate the TC will not activate. Obviously the car is pre 99 without four wheel TC or the spinning front would be braked to send power to the stationary wheel. So basically no grip both rears, no grip on spinning front, grip on stationary front or a brake binding. One front could not be spun if there was no connection to the other side.

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Thanks for the reply. But I am still none the wiser, I just cant get my head round what you have written. Sorry but I am a complete dunce when it comes to this type of thing!

So are saying that there is nothing wrong with my car?

Maybe the other 4x4's that got through could lock their diffs?

Can I not lock the diffs on the P38?

If it's an early P38 it will only have traction control on the rear wheels, as Wammers said if both rear wheels are spinning it will do nothing, nor would a diff lock. If there is no traction control on the front and one front wheel is spinning as well as the rears there is no way it will move. Maybe your last one had 4 wheel TC.
LR went for the cheap option and fitted TC instead of limited slip diffs or diff locks but they would not have helped in your situation. Front diff locks are very rare as they can be dangerous.

DoZZa said:

Thanks for the reply. But I am still none the wiser, I just cant get my head round what you have written. Sorry but I am a complete dunce when it comes to this type of thing!

So are saying that there is nothing wrong with my car?

Maybe the other 4x4's that got through could lock their diffs?

Can I not lock the diffs on the P38?

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No diffs cannot be locked, only centre diff has automatic lockup. Maybe they had better tyres on than you have. Or a better or more experienced driving style for the conditions. Lowering the tyre pressures by 5 or 6 psi helps on snow.

Your 2000 model 4.6 should have 4 wheel traction control operated by the brake system and and viscous lockup centre differential. When you start to loose traction and the control kicks in you should get a "clacking" sound accompanied by a flashing TC light in the binacle as the system applies the brakes to whatever wheel is spinning. This system only works under a certain speed that I cant recall at present, but its quite slow.

Power from the engine is sent forward and rearward by the transfer box, without locking diffs in the axles, the power will take the easiest route to spin a wheel so you could (TC not working ) end up with a 2 wheel drive car - 1 front wheel and 1 rear wheel spinning.

rewmer said:

Your 2000 model 4.6 should have 4 wheel traction control operated by the brake system and and viscous lockup centre differential. When you start to loose traction and the control kicks in you should get a "clacking" sound accompanied by a flashing TC light in the binacle as the system applies the brakes to whatever wheel is spinning. This system only works under a certain speed that I cant recall at present, but its quite slow.

Power from the engine is sent forward and rearward by the transfer box, without locking diffs in the axles, the power will take the easiest route to spin a wheel so you could (TC not working ) end up with a 2 wheel drive car - 1 front wheel and 1 rear wheel spinning.

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How do you know it's a MY2000 4.6? OK I see it's in his signature:doh: So TC is not working unless it overheated.

Datatek said:

How do you know it's a MY2000 4.6? OK I see it's in his signature:doh: So TC is not working unless it overheated.

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Yeah i missed that as well, must be an age related thing.

Should have updated my sig. The rangie I have now is a MY97. The 2000 model was my second P38 that sadly died due to a slipped liner and was never really taken off road much but when it did it was excellent.

My first P38 that was also a 97, did have TC on the back and from my current experience was a much better car off road than my current P38. I did a fair bit of off road driving in this and it never got stuck once. This was on snow and ice and the odd bit of mud.

The place that I described in my other thread, being a muddy slope, my first P38 never one had an issue going up this muddy slope, where as the current one has no chance. Maybe its the tyres, the first P38 had Pirelli Scorpions, the 2000 model had General Grabber AT2's, and the current one has General Grabber AT's.

If read reviews on the AT's and from what I have read, they perform well in the snow/ice and also fairly well on wet mud until it gets deep. This is another reason why I think there is something wrong as the tyres should have been up to the job.

I just have a feeling that there is something wrong, I am usually correct with my hunches and I need to get someone to look at it for peace of mind as I hate things that do not work as intended. Problem is I dont know how this can be tested for faults.

DoZZa said:

Should have updated my sig. The rangie I have now is a MY97. The 2000 model was my second P38 that sadly died due to a slipped liner and was never really taken off road much but when it did it was excellent.

My first P38 that was also a 97, did have TC on the back and from my current experience was a much better car off road than my current P38. I did a fair bit of off road driving in this and it never got stuck once. This was on snow and ice and the odd bit of mud.

The place that I described in my other thread, being a muddy slope, my first P38 never one had an issue going up this muddy slope, where as the current one has no chance. Maybe its the tyres, the first P38 had Pirelli Scorpions, the 2000 model had General Grabber AT2's, and the current one has General Grabber AT's.

If read reviews on the AT's and from what I have read, they perform well in the snow/ice and also fairly well on wet mud until it gets deep. This is another reason why I think there is something wrong as the tyres should have been up to the job.

I just have a feeling that there is something wrong, I am usually correct with my hunches and I need to get someone to look at it for peace of mind as I hate things that do not work as intended. Problem is I dont know how this can be tested for faults.

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If it has 2 wheel TC, from what you describe there is nothing wrong with it

4 wheel traction control made a lot of difference to lead footed drivers (The RR manual is full of "if you get stuck, boot it and let TC get you out" advice). 2 wheel TC you have to adapt to the limitations of open diff.

OPs signiture is a giveaway. Ah cock ! out of date........

DoZZa said:

Should have updated my sig. The rangie I have now is a MY97. The 2000 model was my second P38 that sadly died due to a slipped liner and was never really taken off road much but when it did it was excellent.

My first P38 that was also a 97, did have TC on the back and from my current experience was a much better car off road than my current P38. I did a fair bit of off road driving in this and it never got stuck once. This was on snow and ice and the odd bit of mud.

The place that I described in my other thread, being a muddy slope, my first P38 never one had an issue going up this muddy slope, where as the current one has no chance. Maybe its the tyres, the first P38 had Pirelli Scorpions, the 2000 model had General Grabber AT2's, and the current one has General Grabber AT's.

If read reviews on the AT's and from what I have read, they perform well in the snow/ice and also fairly well on wet mud until it gets deep. This is another reason why I think there is something wrong as the tyres should have been up to the job.

I just have a feeling that there is something wrong, I am usually correct with my hunches and I need to get someone to look at it for peace of mind as I hate things that do not work as intended. Problem is I dont know how this can be tested for faults.

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In that case, i refer the honourable gentleman to a answer i gave earlier.

How does the traction control keep track of the wheels? My miggy has like cog teeth. If similar, could snow have got jammed in there somehow and that's what's causing it not to activate?

Grrrr, yes it has cog teeth but they are under a gaiter protecting front CV-joint, well hidden inside the hub. If there was snow in there, TC would be the least of his problems. Plus, i reckon it works by induction, which snow would not change much.

Also, the ABS and TC lights would be on in that case.

No chance at all of anything getting near the reluctor rings on the TC specially the rear ones. As it does not have TC on the fronts that does not come into the equation.