P38, 2.5 diesel, EGR removal?? is it possible??

Hi all.
Basically, as above.
Is it possible to remove the EGR valve from the intake manifold??
I have done some research on previous threads, but all i find is for the TD5 and V6.

Are they available as a kit or can it be a home maufacture type of mod??
any help is greatly appreciated.

suzbug said:

Hi all.
Basically, as above.
Is it possible to remove the EGR valve from the intake manifold??
I have done some research on previous threads, but all i find is for the TD5 and V6.

Are they available as a kit or can it be a home maufacture type of mod??
any help is greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

Are you planning a permanent removal of the complete EGR system as that would probably need either an ECU remap or replacing your current ECU with one calibrated to run without EGR (some P38 TDi's came without EGR) ?

ahhhh.....
didnt realise that..
ive seen some early bmw 2.5d P38 without the EGR.
im not a fan of them. all they seem to do is choke up the ilnet with oily crap that you really dont want!
I recently removed my inlet manifold to replace the injector bleed off pipes, to find the inlet manifold, and inlet bores coated with approx 2-4mm of oily crap residue from the egr and the oil breather from the rocker cover..
Was hoping there was a mod out there which did away with the EGR

Is this not the case??
I have a 2000, x reg

Thanks

how do you remove this gunge? Is there an easy way to do it?

suzbug said:

Was hoping there was a mod out there which did away with the EGR

Is this not the case??
I have a 2000, x reg

Thanks

Click to expand...

Not too sure what the ECU will do if it detects an EGR valve system "failure" as that would be what happened it you removed it all.

You could try disconnecting the vacuum actuator and see what happens, although there is a guy on here who seems to be very conversant with the way the LR ECU operates so maybe he'll stumble across this thread and be able to help.

Whatever you do, it all seems a bit extreme just to rid the inlet manifold of some oily gunge on the inside, most of which is coming from the breather anyway as the exhaust shouldn't have any unburnt fuel in it.

There are many people who believe the removal of the EGR on other engines, if not the bmw 2.5d, to make them run more efficiently and get better mpg.
Was kinda hoping this could be the case with mine.
The recirculation of exhaust gas back into the inlet to lower emmisions for a test the MOT stations cannot perform seems to be pointless. Cold fresh oxygen is what an engine needs, not a hot cocktail of unburnt crap from the EGR.
there is a well known company (that sounds like "feremy jearn") who do a kit for the disco td V6, with good reviews.
Shame it doesnt seem to be that easy for the P38.

The inlet manifold got cleaned with a water based degreaser, (Gunk) and a toothbrush. it was removed and filled full, then brushed with an old toothbrush. this happened 2-3 times, then a couple of good rinses out with the hose pipe. then 20 mins with the hair drier blowing through dried it nicely.
The inlet bores were cleaned by delicatley but firmly wipping with a rag with petrol on it. Taking care not to let any lumps of crud fall down to the valves.
This cleaning opened up the inlet manifold and inlet bores back to origional manufactureres spec, in some cases, it removed about 2-4mm of crud from around the entire circumference. this would have greatly reduced the possible air flow available. ( anybody who has ported any manifolds knows how the turbulant air from an off centre manifold affects performance, so opening up the inlet back to origional is worth while)

I recomend it to anyone who also needs to replace the glowplugs or replace the injector bleed off pipes or any other occasion where the inlet manifold needs to be removed.

i know land rover sell a blanking plate for the td5 engine and thats computer controlled so i wouldn't have thought it would be a problem.
I know that there different engines but there both front the same era so in theroy there emission control systems should be similar.
If you do it would be worth cleaning out the intercooler and such at the same time (making sure you get all the cleaning vapour out)

keep us posted as i'd be interested in doing the same to my dse

suzbug said:

There are many people who believe the removal of the EGR on other engines, if not the bmw 2.5d, to make them run more efficiently and get better mpg.
Was kinda hoping this could be the case with mine.
The recirculation of exhaust gas back into the inlet to lower emmisions for a test the MOT stations cannot perform seems to be pointless. Cold fresh oxygen is what an engine needs, not a hot cocktail of unburnt crap from the EGR.

Click to expand...

Not actually completely true, people believe these things because they don't understand how it works, they believe it is there to "lower emissions" without understanding the mechanics behind that.

The sole purpose of the EGR system is to reduce the formation of Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). These are formed when the temperature in the combustion chamber reaches very high levels. To avoid this situation, the EGR system is used to lower combustion chamber temperatures by admitting small amounts of exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber. As you can imagine, exhaust gas does not burn, and does not help the combustion process. If the EGR system admitted exhaust gas into the combustion chamber at idle, it would cause a rough idle, or stalling. As a result, EGR does not allow exhaust gas into the chamber at idle or at wide open throttle so ultimate power is unaffected.

If you simply remove the EGR system from the car, but do not disable it in the ECU, you can run into significant problems as combustion chamber temperatures can rise to unacceptably high levels. Anyone who thinks that's a smart idea should remove their EGR now and start saving for the possible damaged head and pistons......

bwarb said:

Not actually completely true, people believe these things because they don't understand how it works, they believe it is there to "lower emissions" without understanding the mechanics behind that.

The sole purpose of the EGR system is to reduce the formation of Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). These are formed when the temperature in the combustion chamber reaches very high levels. To avoid this situation, the EGR system is used to lower combustion chamber temperatures by admitting small amounts of exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber. As you can imagine, exhaust gas does not burn, and does not help the combustion process. If the EGR system admitted exhaust gas into the combustion chamber at idle, it would cause a rough idle, or stalling. As a result, EGR does not allow exhaust gas into the chamber at idle or at wide open throttle so ultimate power is unaffected.

If you simply remove the EGR system from the car, but do not disable it in the ECU, you can run into significant problems as combustion chamber temperatures can rise to unacceptably high levels. Anyone who thinks that's a smart idea should remove their EGR now and start saving for the possible damaged head and pistons......

Click to expand...

And reading rubbish off Tinternet about EGR rather than watching it work is no better,look at some live data on Testbook/IDS and you will see what I mean.Blanking the EGR will stop the gunge,make the owner feel better and thats about it,if its working properly nothing else will be noticeable.

I have to admit, all my engine tinkering has been on older design engines, and i admit im an old school type of guy.
There are many enignes out there without EGR (the bmw 2.5d is one of them pre 99! why??).
There are also many engines which lend themselves nicely to modifcation, pulse tunning, porting and polishing.. And i have read, and spoken to more people who rate the removal of the EGR than those who wish to keep it.
I suppose its a discusion not dis-similar to the catalitic converter argument of old, and why many people who wish to remove one with a cat bypass pipe.
yes, they are there for a reason, but do they actually make the engine run any better??
i mean, do they make it more driveable?? not how does it perform on a testbed or under test conditions with an emmisions probe pushed up its bum measuring the exhaust gasses.
is it helpful to the owner of that vehicle to modify in such a way?
Surely higher temps can be accomodated by the cooling system??
The pre 99 bmw 2.5 doesnt have an EGR...
Please dont get me wrong, i am not wishing to create an argument, i am just looking for any evidence if it is a good idea, opinions from anyone who has ever removed and EGR and what they have thought, and if it could be done to the P38.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discusion, it is appreciated to get input from people who have knowledge or opinions in this field

"i" think if it is block-vacuum-.and the light didn´t show up.. than taking it of is possible.helps in 300 tdi between 1700 and 2100rpm... de-cat helps a LOT to make turbo spool faster and at a lower rpm

Mine is like yours with a shed load of oil coming from the rocker cover. I'm burning 4 litres of oil between services, the majority of which I believe is coming through the Breather.

I took the cover off a while ago to see if I could figure a way to reduce the amount of oil coming out. Couldn't figure where it was coming from and only managed to give myself another leak around the pump at the front of the engine. :doh:

In the end I said to myself that at least the turbo would never wear out.

Anyway, its well worth cleaning out the intercooler while you're at it.

BTW I disconnected the EGR vacuum pump for a while, didn't notice any difference.

If your worried about the oil breather putting crud into the air intake system I think you can disconnect it and buy catch tanks or a small filter to put in its place

To reduce that amount of oil, you must clean the breather.".the mushroom thing". with a degreaser or just gas.

to eliminate once and for all, make a bypass from the air intake ..and connect it with a hose to 1/4L water bottle, that you can put any where in the engine bay.. my old 300tdi as passed 3 Mot´s like that no problem (also without Egr and cat)


if you didn´t note's any difference more that probably your intake is full of dirt has your IC

My two pence worth on this is that the gunge comes from the turbo and the engine breather, not from the EGR valve, so removing the EGR valve won't help and is better left in place.

Cleaning out the hoses, intercooler and manifold makes a noticeable difference after, I've never cleaned the breather valve in the cam cover, but I believe this gets gunged up and sticks open, thereby allowing oil to be sucked out at higher revs when it should be closed.

I might open another thread on the cam cover breather. Lanmjdun, any info you have on that would be much appreciated. Getting the bloody cam/rocker cover back on is a bitch of a job. Its soo tight at the bulkhead end.

i´m going to try to make one EGr remover. after all it is just a piece of tube.

about the CAT.. more two weeys and illlet you know .

but aspect great improvent , special with the PSi Box

SpudH said:

I might open another thread on the cam cover breather. Lanmjdun, any info you have on that would be much appreciated. Getting the bloody cam/rocker cover back on is a bitch of a job. Its soo tight at the bulkhead end.

Click to expand...

I don't have any info, all I know is the tech description of it on the Freelander TD4 which is also included on the RAVE CD, and I assume it works in a similar way. Interestingly in the Freelander's case it recommends frequent cleaning sessions.

suzbug said:

I have to admit, all my engine tinkering has been on older design engines, and i admit im an old school type of guy.
There are many enignes out there without EGR (the bmw 2.5d is one of them pre 99! why??).
There are also many engines which lend themselves nicely to modifcation, pulse tunning, porting and polishing.. And i have read, and spoken to more people who rate the removal of the EGR than those who wish to keep it.
I suppose its a discusion not dis-similar to the catalitic converter argument of old, and why many people who wish to remove one with a cat bypass pipe.
yes, they are there for a reason, but do they actually make the engine run any better??
i mean, do they make it more driveable?? not how does it perform on a testbed or under test conditions with an emmisions probe pushed up its bum measuring the exhaust gasses.
is it helpful to the owner of that vehicle to modify in such a way?
Surely higher temps can be accomodated by the cooling system??
The pre 99 bmw 2.5 doesnt have an EGR...
Please dont get me wrong, i am not wishing to create an argument, i am just looking for any evidence if it is a good idea, opinions from anyone who has ever removed and EGR and what they have thought, and if it could be done to the P38.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discusion, it is appreciated to get input from people who have knowledge or opinions in this field

Click to expand...

"cat bypass pipe,make it more driveable" dame right it does!
about ,EGR if it hasn´t been clean forward than , no difference what so ever!

any comments ?