OT Referee

In <[email protected]> Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:39:46 +0100, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>On or around Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:02:23 +0100, "Badger"
>><[email protected]> enlightened us
>>thusly:
>>>Anyways, it doesn't really matter.
>>>It's only a game - real sport has spark plugs!
>>
>>unless it's a diesel...
>
> on which line, I see that some lot had a diesel entered at Le 24
> heures du Mans this year. didn't do any good, but interesting that
> they tried.

This may be an over generalisation but one really good reason for
running "something different" is the benefits you get in sponsorship. It
rarely matters if you do as well as the other vehicles because the
amount of publicity/attention you get is substantially higher than the
other competitors get and that can then be turned into money by
demonstrating to sponsors that the publicity is there. Without publicity
you don't get sponsorship. The fact that you know that someone entered a
diesel at Le Mans proves the case to a certain extent.

The second benefit of running a diesel in speed competitions is that
they often get their own class and a lacklustre performance compared to
the rest of the field can give you a class win whilst vehicles that did
better than you overall come away with nothing. Again this is a good
selling point for potential sponsors. Much better to say "we won our
class at Le Mans this year" than "we finished 22nd at Le Mans this year" (
I don't know the sports car class systems so this may be a bad example).

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

On Tuesday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "Badger"
wrote:

> Like I said, REAL sport has spark plugs. Diesels aren't real sport!
> Teeheehee. And before you remind me Austin - yes, I know, I drive a diesel
> car!

You might find that driving a bit differently helps. Keep the revs up
on a diesel engine. But that might not be so big a difference in
motorsport as it could be for highway driving. Still, I wonder what the
effect would be if, instead of the usually suggested RR diffs in a
Series, an RR had the lower-ratio Series diffs and a diesel engine.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

In message <[email protected]>, Badger
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:39:46 +0100, Austin Shackles
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >On or around Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:02:23 +0100, "Badger"
>> ><[email protected]> enlightened us
>thusly:
>> >
>> >>Anyways, it doesn't really matter.
>> >>It's only a game - real sport has spark plugs!
>> >
>> >unless it's a diesel...
>>
>> on which line, I see that some lot had a diesel entered at Le 24 heures du
>> Mans this year. didn't do any good, but interesting that they tried.
>>
>I was recently involved with a diesel discovery rally car (featured in
>latest LRO) running lpg over diesel as a power enhancement, and no matter
>what I did to the boost or fuelling (diesel and lpg) it just wouldn't
>perform all that well. You could get more bhp and torque, but you couldn't
>utilise it due to the slower accellerating characteristics of the diesel
>engine. What LRO didn't tell you was that on the Snowman rally, even though
>the finish place looked fairly good, it was the LAST finisher!! I think it
>was also about second last on the Granite rally. Major problem for rallying
>is it has no anti-roll bars and was running on the wrong rubber, and an
>owner who'se wallet is sewn up with anchor chain!
>Like I said, REAL sport has spark plugs. Diesels aren't real sport!
>Teeheehee. And before you remind me Austin - yes, I know, I drive a diesel
>car!
>Badger.
>
>
We played around with LPG on my 200 tdi. Went pretty well if you upped
the LPG enough, but then was useless on economy which was the main
selling point. Important thing on any diesel is to keep your foot at or
near the floor at all times.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:12:35 +0100, "Badger"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us
thusly:
>
> >You could get more bhp and torque, but you couldn't
> >utilise it due to the slower accellerating characteristics of the diesel
> >engine.
>
> you might need to lighten the flywheel and so on...

Yep, but it wasn't mine and I wasn't getting paid, only looking at it as a
favour.

>
> but in the case of a turbo, it's seemed to me that the most critical thing
> is keeping the engine on the sweet spot of the turbo. our 300 TDi disco
can
> be made to shift bloody fast for a 2-ton vehicle with, lets face it, not
> that much power, provided you keep the revs somewhere between about 2500
and
> 3500.

Indeed. My comment to Kev was that I'd driven std disco's that felt more
powerful on the road. He didn't like that!

Badger.

""David G. Bell"" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> Still, I wonder what the
> effect would be if, instead of the usually suggested RR diffs in a
> Series, an RR had the lower-ratio Series diffs and a diesel engine.

Lots of smoke and noise, and about 60mph???
Badger.

On or around Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:03:05 +0100 (BST),
[email protected] ("David G. Bell") enlightened us thusly:

>On Tuesday, in article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "Badger"
> wrote:
>
>> Like I said, REAL sport has spark plugs. Diesels aren't real sport!
>> Teeheehee. And before you remind me Austin - yes, I know, I drive a diesel
>> car!
>
>You might find that driving a bit differently helps. Keep the revs up
>on a diesel engine. But that might not be so big a difference in
>motorsport as it could be for highway driving. Still, I wonder what the
>effect would be if, instead of the usually suggested RR diffs in a
>Series, an RR had the lower-ratio Series diffs and a diesel engine.

the ratios in the 300 TDi disco seem to suit it pretty well, IME, provided
the engine's on song.

'course, if it was mine, I'd up the boost and fit a larger intercooler... I
bet it'd not be hard to get the TDi up to about 150 ponies, really.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
<snip>
> 'course, if it was mine, I'd up the boost and fit a larger intercooler...
I
> bet it'd not be hard to get the TDi up to about 150 ponies, really.

The disco in question was showing nearly 1.75 bar boost pressure on it's
aftermarket gauge, with a replacement massive ally intercooler fitted!
Personally, I think the engine itself is shafted!
Badger.

On or around Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:27:32 +0100, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news[email protected]...
><snip>
>> 'course, if it was mine, I'd up the boost and fit a larger intercooler...
>I
>> bet it'd not be hard to get the TDi up to about 150 ponies, really.
>
>The disco in question was showing nearly 1.75 bar boost pressure on it's
>aftermarket gauge, with a replacement massive ally intercooler fitted!
>Personally, I think the engine itself is shafted!

that or the rest of the fuel system... I imagine a certain amount of
adjustment is required to handle that sort of boost.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip> >
> >The disco in question was showing nearly 1.75 bar boost pressure on it's
> >aftermarket gauge, with a replacement massive ally intercooler fitted!
> >Personally, I think the engine itself is shafted!
>
> that or the rest of the fuel system... I imagine a certain amount of
> adjustment is required to handle that sort of boost.

The fuel metering pump is, to a certain extent, self-compensating as it
senses boost pressure. Still, it did manage to produce some black smoke on
hard accel so one can assume it was getting enough fuel. Just felt lacking
in power on the road, even with a roll cage and all the underside protection
making it slightly heavier than a std motor (allowing for it being
stripped-out) it felt slower than many a std 200tdi I've driven.
Badger.

On or around Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:43:05 +0100, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
><snip> >
>> >The disco in question was showing nearly 1.75 bar boost pressure on it's
>> >aftermarket gauge, with a replacement massive ally intercooler fitted!
>> >Personally, I think the engine itself is shafted!
>>
>> that or the rest of the fuel system... I imagine a certain amount of
>> adjustment is required to handle that sort of boost.
>
>The fuel metering pump is, to a certain extent, self-compensating as it
>senses boost pressure. Still, it did manage to produce some black smoke on
>hard accel so one can assume it was getting enough fuel. Just felt lacking
>in power on the road, even with a roll cage and all the underside protection
>making it slightly heavier than a std motor (allowing for it being
>stripped-out) it felt slower than many a std 200tdi I've driven.

must've just been buggered, then

I don;t see why a decent-condition diesel shouldn't be tunable to equal a
3.5 V8 in normal use, maybe more. In terms of the modern racer, and
considering the perfomance on-road of the current generation of diesels, it
should easily be possible to get results, I'd have thought. the latest lot
of common-rail diesels and similar sucha s the pump-düse (which IIRC is
"pump-jet" or similar) and LR's unit injector things on the TD5 (are those
the same, BTW? PD is the volskwagen take on it...) if they can't produce a
diesel endurance racer, then there's summat wrong.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> must've just been buggered, then

My thoughts exactly.

>
> I don;t see why a decent-condition diesel shouldn't be tunable to equal a
> 3.5 V8 in normal use, maybe more. In terms of the modern racer, and
> considering the perfomance on-road of the current generation of diesels,
it
> should easily be possible to get results, I'd have thought. the latest
lot
> of common-rail diesels and similar sucha s the pump-düse (which IIRC is
> "pump-jet" or similar) and LR's unit injector things on the TD5 (are those
> the same, BTW? PD is the volskwagen take on it...) if they can't produce
a
> diesel endurance racer, then there's summat wrong.

Indeed. The engine in my BMW (3.0 straight 6) is a phenomenal piece of
diesel engineering, 184bhp and 288lb-ft std, chippable to 220ish bhp and
330lb-ft, smooth and quoet as well. The thought has crossed my mind a few
times now, what if this was in a 110..... Dunno how close this engine is to
the TD6, might even be the same thing packaged with different plastics?
Another engine that springs to mind is the new Peugeot V6 diesel that's
going in the X-type Jag. On paper, more poke than the BMW but how it
delivers it I don't know as straight 6's are inherently torquey designs.
Badger.

"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> > I don;t see why a decent-condition diesel shouldn't be tunable to equal
a
> > 3.5 V8 in normal use, maybe more. In terms of the modern racer, and
> > considering the perfomance on-road of the current generation of diesels,
> it
> > should easily be possible to get results, I'd have thought. the latest
> lot
> > of common-rail diesels and similar sucha s the pump-düse (which IIRC is
> > "pump-jet" or similar) and LR's unit injector things on the TD5 (are
those
> > the same, BTW? PD is the volskwagen take on it...) if they can't
produce
> a
> > diesel endurance racer, then there's summat wrong.
>
> Indeed. The engine in my BMW (3.0 straight 6) is a phenomenal piece of
> diesel engineering, 184bhp and 288lb-ft std, chippable to 220ish bhp and
> 330lb-ft, smooth and quoet as well. The thought has crossed my mind a few
> times now, what if this was in a 110..... Dunno how close this engine is
to
> the TD6, might even be the same thing packaged with different plastics?
> Another engine that springs to mind is the new Peugeot V6 diesel that's
> going in the X-type Jag. On paper, more poke than the BMW but how it
> delivers it I don't know as straight 6's are inherently torquey designs.
> Badger.

How on earth did we get from discussing the England game to diesel engines?

In message <[email protected]>, David French
<[email protected]> writes
>"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> > I don;t see why a decent-condition diesel shouldn't be tunable to equal
>a
>> > 3.5 V8 in normal use, maybe more. In terms of the modern racer, and
>> > considering the perfomance on-road of the current generation of diesels,
>> it
>> > should easily be possible to get results, I'd have thought. the latest
>> lot
>> > of common-rail diesels and similar sucha s the pump-düse (which IIRC is
>> > "pump-jet" or similar) and LR's unit injector things on the TD5 (are
>those
>> > the same, BTW? PD is the volskwagen take on it...) if they can't
>produce
>> a
>> > diesel endurance racer, then there's summat wrong.
>>
>> Indeed. The engine in my BMW (3.0 straight 6) is a phenomenal piece of
>> diesel engineering, 184bhp and 288lb-ft std, chippable to 220ish bhp and
>> 330lb-ft, smooth and quoet as well. The thought has crossed my mind a few
>> times now, what if this was in a 110..... Dunno how close this engine is
>to
>> the TD6, might even be the same thing packaged with different plastics?
>> Another engine that springs to mind is the new Peugeot V6 diesel that's
>> going in the X-type Jag. On paper, more poke than the BMW but how it
>> delivers it I don't know as straight 6's are inherently torquey designs.
>> Badger.
>
>How on earth did we get from discussing the England game to diesel engines?
>
>
And on that subject has anyone heard the official explanation from Uefa
as to the foul they claim to have seen on TV replays?
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

>
>How on earth did we get from discussing the England game to diesel engines?
>

Slow, smelly, over-rated and all torque?

Why, it's the England midfield....

;-) and all that....
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'67 Series 2a 109" aka "Ernie (FOR SALE)
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'95 Discovery V8i aka "The Disco" (FOR SALE)
03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On or around Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:39:06 +0100, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Indeed. The engine in my BMW (3.0 straight 6) is a phenomenal piece of
>diesel engineering, 184bhp and 288lb-ft std, chippable to 220ish bhp and
>330lb-ft, smooth and quoet as well. The thought has crossed my mind a few
>times now, what if this was in a 110..... Dunno how close this engine is to
>the TD6, might even be the same thing packaged with different plastics?
>Another engine that springs to mind is the new Peugeot V6 diesel that's
>going in the X-type Jag. On paper, more poke than the BMW but how it
>delivers it I don't know as straight 6's are inherently torquey designs.

Audi do a nice 2.5 V6 as well, by all accounts. should suit a freeloader...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

On or around Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:39:11 +0100, "David French"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>How on earth did we get from discussing the England game to diesel engines?
>

's called thread drift. Happens all the time in the shedde.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:06:41 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>'s called thread drift. Happens all the time in the shedde.

No, not many threads in the shedde manage to 'start' on topic, unlike
this thread - starting 'off' topic, then sadly drifting 'on' topic.
Erm... my brain hurts...

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:06:14 GMT, Exit wrote:

> The goal wasn't allowed because it was scored by England, the country who
> knocked the refs country out of the tournament a game earlier.

Of course, that didn't dawn on me until you just mentioned it. Now it all
makes sense.


--

Tony.
2003 Defender 110 CSW.
www.theboomclan.com/lr0013.jpg

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:08:44 +0100, Badger wrote:

> At least we Scots didn't go, we'd have got knocked out even sooner,

I don't mind getting knocked out first round if it's fair. It's when
everyone on the planet except one knows the goal was good but still
dissallows it. Even every Portugese native knows they didn't legitimately
win it. The shame they must have felt in victory must be a whole lot worse
than what we felt in defeat.

Anyway, Why are Englishmen better lovers than Frenckmen?

Because they can stay on top for 90 minutes and still come second!

--

Tony.
2003 Defender 110 CSW.
www.theboomclan.com/lr0013.jpg

On or around Sun, 27 Jun 2004 19:38:31 +0100, Tony Boom
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Because they can stay on top for 90 minutes and still come second!

glad I wasn't drinking coffee at that point.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".