OT mig co2 bottles

Anyone know how/where to source a decent sized bottle of co2 for mig
welding? I have a SIP Turbomate 130 and have used it to weld new dumb
irons, crossmember, outriggers, A-posts and so on but I'm fed up with
buying those silly little bottles of co2!

One of the advantages advertised with this SIP welder is that it has a
regulator which fits 'standard-sized' bottles of gas but I don't know
what to buy, where to look or how much to pay (ie a rip-off waiting to
happen!).

Can anyone advise? What about those pub co2 bottles offered on Ebay
every so often -- any good?

Alternatively, can the flux-cored wire used for gasless welders be used?

Jerry wrote:
> Anyone know how/where to source a decent sized bottle of co2 for mig

Groan... of course this question (or something like it) has been asked
a million times here already -- just read old posts -- apologies.

Seems like flux wire is more or less useless, the best gas is an
argon/co2 mix and the best source for a big bottle is BOC who will rent
one for £35pa -- can anyone confirm?

Jerry wrote:
> Anyone know how/where to source a decent sized bottle of co2 for mig
> welding? I have a SIP Turbomate 130 and have used it to weld new dumb
> irons, crossmember, outriggers, A-posts and so on but I'm fed up with
> buying those silly little bottles of co2!
>
> One of the advantages advertised with this SIP welder is that it has a
> regulator which fits 'standard-sized' bottles of gas but I don't know
> what to buy, where to look or how much to pay (ie a rip-off waiting to
> happen!).
>
> Can anyone advise? What about those pub co2 bottles offered on Ebay
> every so often -- any good?
>
> Alternatively, can the flux-cored wire used for gasless welders be used?

I rent an X size (I think) bottle of "Migweld universal" (argon/co2
mix) from Energas and find it a lot cheaper than BOC, try contacting
your local dealer: http://www.energas.co.uk

I had to buy a reg. and they don't come cheap, I'm surprised to hear
that SIP welders come with one for a 'proper' bottle as it would add a
huge premium to the price when many would never use it.
Greg

On 3 Oct 2006 05:06:56 -0700, "Jerry" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Seems like flux wire is more or less useless, the best gas is an
>argon/co2 mix and the best source for a big bottle is BOC who will rent
>one for £35pa -- can anyone confirm?

Seems a pretty good analysis except I think I was paying gbp8/month
for a small bottle and the refill charge including cylinder handling
added about 25 quid each time.

Whilst it doesn't make anywhere as smooth a weld, using the same
regulator on a CO2 fire extinguisher works for me, lasts for ages and
only costs 10quid for 2kg if you cannot find an abandoned one at the
ti^H^H civic amenities site.

AJH

On or around 3 Oct 2006 05:06:56 -0700, "Jerry"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Jerry wrote:
>> Anyone know how/where to source a decent sized bottle of co2 for mig
>
>Groan... of course this question (or something like it) has been asked
>a million times here already -- just read old posts -- apologies.
>
>Seems like flux wire is more or less useless, the best gas is an
>argon/co2 mix and the best source for a big bottle is BOC who will rent
>one for £35pa -- can anyone confirm?

I get bottles from Air Products, less pernickety than BOC...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Where they make a desert they call it peace" Tacitus (c.55 - c.117)
Agricola, 30

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Jerry wrote:
> > Anyone know how/where to source a decent sized bottle of co2 for
mig
> > welding? I have a SIP Turbomate 130 and have used it to weld new
dumb
> > irons, crossmember, outriggers, A-posts and so on but I'm fed up
with
> > buying those silly little bottles of co2!
> >
> > One of the advantages advertised with this SIP welder is that it
has a
> > regulator which fits 'standard-sized' bottles of gas but I don't
know
> > what to buy, where to look or how much to pay (ie a rip-off
waiting to
> > happen!).
> >
> > Can anyone advise? What about those pub co2 bottles offered on
Ebay
> > every so often -- any good?
> >
> > Alternatively, can the flux-cored wire used for gasless welders be
used?
>
> I rent an X size (I think) bottle of "Migweld universal" (argon/co2
> mix) from Energas and find it a lot cheaper than BOC, try contacting
> your local dealer: http://www.energas.co.uk
>
> I had to buy a reg. and they don't come cheap, I'm surprised to hear
> that SIP welders come with one for a 'proper' bottle as it would add
a
> huge premium to the price when many would never use it.
> Greg
>

I rent oxygen, acetylene and pure argon form BOC (hence having no legs
and arms) but the CO2 I get now at the local 'brewery tap' beer
supplier who provide pub size bottles with kegs for parties. They are
outright sale (no deposit) and not cheap but at least no annual
rental. When I used to travel about more in my job I had no problem
swapping empty pub CO2 bottles for full ones using the normal currency
of pictures of the Queen - I just waited until I saw a brewery lorry
delivering to a pub and accosted the driver.


AWEM

I use a pub Co2 bottle that I bought direct from the gas suppliers, it was
£40 outright sale (the bottle was full). I now pay £10 a refill and the
bottle lasts for ages, probably 3-4 hours of actual welding, maybe more, not
really timed it.

What I have noticed is the last time that I changed a bottle over he changed
it for a small squat tank (same volume) but obviously for welding rather
than pubs. I bought 2 bottles at the time so I didnt run out half way
through a job.

Whilst I dont doubt that the argon mix is better (I have never used it so I
dont know) I have damn good welds with the CO2 and have no complaints. From
what I remember, the regulator wasnt that dear, it was about £25 and
another £10 for the flowmeter. When you consider the cost of the small
bottles of gas or the yerly rental charges it is very cheap.

steve

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Jerry wrote:
>> Anyone know how/where to source a decent sized bottle of co2 for mig
>> welding? I have a SIP Turbomate 130 and have used it to weld new dumb
>> irons, crossmember, outriggers, A-posts and so on but I'm fed up with
>> buying those silly little bottles of co2!
>>
>> One of the advantages advertised with this SIP welder is that it has a
>> regulator which fits 'standard-sized' bottles of gas but I don't know
>> what to buy, where to look or how much to pay (ie a rip-off waiting to
>> happen!).
>>
>> Can anyone advise? What about those pub co2 bottles offered on Ebay
>> every so often -- any good?
>>
>> Alternatively, can the flux-cored wire used for gasless welders be used?
>
> I rent an X size (I think) bottle of "Migweld universal" (argon/co2
> mix) from Energas and find it a lot cheaper than BOC, try contacting
> your local dealer: http://www.energas.co.uk
>
> I had to buy a reg. and they don't come cheap, I'm surprised to hear
> that SIP welders come with one for a 'proper' bottle as it would add a
> huge premium to the price when many would never use it.
> Greg
>

Steve Nunn wrote:

> Whilst I dont doubt that the argon mix is better (I have never used it so I
> dont know) I have damn good welds with the CO2 and have no complaints. From
> what I remember, the regulator wasnt that dear, it was about £25 and
> another £10 for the flowmeter. When you consider the cost of the small
> bottles of gas or the yerly rental charges it is very cheap.

Coogar and other mixes give much better quality welds on mildsteel, less
sputter and better, guaranteed penetration, even at the welder's limit.

Try it and you'll be converted.
Steve

"steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve Nunn wrote:
>
> > Whilst I dont doubt that the argon mix is better (I have never used it
so I
> > dont know) I have damn good welds with the CO2 and have no complaints.
From
> > what I remember, the regulator wasnt that dear, it was about £25 and
> > another £10 for the flowmeter. When you consider the cost of the small
> > bottles of gas or the yerly rental charges it is very cheap.
>
> Coogar and other mixes give much better quality welds on mildsteel, less
> sputter and better, guaranteed penetration, even at the welder's limit.
>
> Try it and you'll be converted.

Apparently some pub gases include Nitrogen so make for even poor welding
than pure CO2, I was very pleased with the move to Argon/CO2 mix as it
improved my welding (which needed improving!).

Greg

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Steve Nunn wrote:
>>
>> > Whilst I dont doubt that the argon mix is better (I have never used it
> so I
>> > dont know) I have damn good welds with the CO2 and have no complaints.
> From
>> > what I remember, the regulator wasnt that dear, it was about £25 and
>> > another £10 for the flowmeter. When you consider the cost of the small
>> > bottles of gas or the yerly rental charges it is very cheap.
>>
>> Coogar and other mixes give much better quality welds on mildsteel, less
>> sputter and better, guaranteed penetration, even at the welder's limit.
>>
>> Try it and you'll be converted.
>
> Apparently some pub gases include Nitrogen so make for even poor welding
> than pure CO2, I was very pleased with the move to Argon/CO2 mix as it
> improved my welding (which needed improving!).
>
> Greg
>
>
Have a look in the yellow pages for any local pub gas suppliers. My local
keeps a few bottles to one side to sell to diy welders £10 a go they last
ages and work fine If you are used to welding with argon/co2 you might find
you will have to mess with the mig's settings a bit to get your desired
results but worth the effort for the amount of money you will save.

Icky

icky wrote:
> Have a look in the yellow pages for any local pub gas suppliers. My local
> keeps a few bottles to one side to sell to diy welders £10 a go they last
> ages and work fine If you are used to welding with argon/co2 you might find
> you will have to mess with the mig's settings a bit to get your desired
> results but worth the effort for the amount of money you will save.

Generally, I'm aiming for the best possible weld quality, and rarely
admire the job for the amount of money I saved !

Steve

On or around Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:55:40 +0100, steve
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>icky wrote:
>> Have a look in the yellow pages for any local pub gas suppliers. My local
>> keeps a few bottles to one side to sell to diy welders £10 a go they last
>> ages and work fine If you are used to welding with argon/co2 you might find
>> you will have to mess with the mig's settings a bit to get your desired
>> results but worth the effort for the amount of money you will save.
>
>Generally, I'm aiming for the best possible weld quality, and rarely
>admire the job for the amount of money I saved !

Coogar or similar is much better on clean steel. I've heard it said that
straight CO2 is better on rusty steel.

Coogar is CO2, Oxy and Argon mix. It comes in different flavours, too, like
Coogar 5, for example. the number tells you something about what ratios of
gases, but I forget what. I rent a little diddy PT10 bottle, but it has
lots of pressure inside it as it's filled at 230 bar, same as the bigguns -
pub gas bottles are lower pressure, around 1000 psi IIRC froma mate who used
to use 'em.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:55:40 +0100, steve
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >icky wrote:

> >Generally, I'm aiming for the best possible weld quality, and rarely
> >admire the job for the amount of money I saved !
>

Then it's Coogar(Air Products) or Argoshield(BOC) for you.

> Coogar or similar is much better on clean steel. I've heard it said that
> straight CO2 is better on rusty steel.
>

CO2 is crap and you don't want to be welding any oxidised surface.

Martin

> Coogar is CO2, Oxy and Argon mix. It comes in different flavours, too,
like
> Coogar 5, for example. the number tells you something about what ratios
of
> gases, but I forget what. I rent a little diddy PT10 bottle, but it has
> lots of pressure inside it as it's filled at 230 bar, same as the
bigguns -
> pub gas bottles are lower pressure, around 1000 psi IIRC froma mate who
used
> to use 'em.
>

On or around Sun, 8 Oct 2006 00:32:23 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:55:40 +0100, steve
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >icky wrote:
>
>> >Generally, I'm aiming for the best possible weld quality, and rarely
>> >admire the job for the amount of money I saved !
>>
>
>Then it's Coogar(Air Products) or Argoshield(BOC) for you.
>
>> Coogar or similar is much better on clean steel. I've heard it said that
>> straight CO2 is better on rusty steel.
>>
>
>CO2 is crap and you don't want to be welding any oxidised surface.
>
>Martin

yeah, but sometimes you don't get much choice.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sun, 8 Oct 2006 00:32:23 +0100, "Oily"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On or around Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:55:40 +0100, steve
> >> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >>
> >> >icky wrote:
> >
> >> >Generally, I'm aiming for the best possible weld quality, and rarely
> >> >admire the job for the amount of money I saved !
> >>
> >
> >Then it's Coogar(Air Products) or Argoshield(BOC) for you.
> >
> >> Coogar or similar is much better on clean steel. I've heard it said
that
> >> straight CO2 is better on rusty steel.
> >>
> >
> >CO2 is crap and you don't want to be welding any oxidised surface.
> >
> >Martin
>
> yeah, but sometimes you don't get much choice.
>
What, with the gas, or the oxidised metal?; you can always clean it
first

Martin

On or around Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:12:23 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> yeah, but sometimes you don't get much choice.
>>
> What, with the gas, or the oxidised metal?; you can always clean it
>first

up to a point, Lord Copper. repairing the inside bit of the rear damper
mounting point on the series III, there's not a lot of scope for getting
serious cleaning kit in there. And if you do, there's a better than even
chance that you cut a brake or fuel line.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:12:23 +0100, "Oily"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>
> >> yeah, but sometimes you don't get much choice.
> >>
> > What, with the gas, or the oxidised metal?; you can always clean it
> >first
>
> up to a point, Lord Copper. repairing the inside bit of the rear damper
> mounting point on the series III, there's not a lot of scope for getting
> serious cleaning kit in there. And if you do, there's a better than even
> chance that you cut a brake or fuel line.
>
>
I see, it's on the 109", the bit that's made to collect salt and water. I
used to cut that bit completely off the chassis top, remake the bit with the
bolt hole in it after putting a new flat bit on the chassis top and then
weld the sides on last. BTW, WTF is the Lord Copper bit, not with you there?

Martin

On or around Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:24:05 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>> up to a point, Lord Copper.

> BTW, WTF is the Lord Copper bit, not with you there?
>

it's a trap to see how widely read people on the interweb are.

comes from Evelyn Waugh's "Scoop", wherein Lord Copper is the proprietor of
the newspaper. If he's right about something, then it's "definitely, Lord
Copper", and if he's wrong, it's "up to a point, Lord Copper".

well worth a read, IMHO.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee"
John Donne (1571? - 1631) Devotions, XVII

Austin Shackles wrote:

|| up to a point, Lord Copper.

ah, another Waughmonger.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

> >"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >> up to a point, Lord Copper.
>
> > BTW, WTF is the Lord Copper bit, not with you there?
> >
>
> it's a trap to see how widely read people on the interweb are.
>
> comes from Evelyn Waugh's "Scoop", wherein Lord Copper is the proprietor
of
> the newspaper. If he's right about something, then it's "definitely, Lord
> Copper", and if he's wrong, it's "up to a point, Lord Copper".
>
> well worth a read, IMHO.
>
Comprehension dawns, so then it's "up to a point, Lord Copper" as I haven't
the time or inclination at the moment, but that doesn't mean to say that I
won't get a round tuit in the near future. I haven't enough time to
scan through the LROI or Old Bike Mart as I would like.

Martin