OT: CO2 Measurements

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Neil Brownlee

Guest
What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for example
pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
what? We are *told* it is bad....

We are being given statistics which I can't ascertain.

Now - how much CO2 does a cyclist exhale when cycling one km? How about a
walker? How about an unfit person doing the same.

I wonder.

Anyone know if there's a repository of such info?

--
Neil


 
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:12:12 -0000, "Neil Brownlee"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for example
>pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
>what? We are *told* it is bad....
>
>We are being given statistics which I can't ascertain.
>
>Now - how much CO2 does a cyclist exhale when cycling one km? How about a
>walker? How about an unfit person doing the same.
>
>I wonder.
>
>Anyone know if there's a repository of such info?

I don't know, but you could do some fag packet maths to establish
scale.

Your engine inhales 4 litres ish 2000 times per minute roughly. A
cyclist probably inhales about the same (?) 60 times per minute.

That alone probably gives you the answer, but you could go further I
suppose....

--
Tim Hobbs
 
Tim,

Cheers - just trying to work out the effect of chucking 4 people out of a
car and making them cycle :)

--
Neil


 

"Neil Brownlee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for
> example
> pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
> what? We are *told* it is bad....
>
> We are being given statistics which I can't ascertain.
>
> Now - how much CO2 does a cyclist exhale when cycling one km? How about a
> walker? How about an unfit person doing the same.
>
> I wonder.
>
> Anyone know if there's a repository of such info?
>
> --
> Neil
>
>

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

Richard


 
On 2006-03-24, Neil Brownlee <[email protected]> wrote:

> Cheers - just trying to work out the effect of chucking 4 people out of a
> car and making them cycle :)

At what speed?

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Neil Brownlee <[email protected]> wrote:

> What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for example
> pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
> what? We are *told* it is bad....
>
> Now - how much CO2 does a cyclist exhale when cycling one km? How about a
> walker? How about an unfit person doing the same.

Well I dive a scuba rebreather and we have chemicals for removing
the CO2. We worry about them as when the CO2 starts getting past
you die. Ruins your day that does. We use a figure of 1 Litre of
oxygen a minute input and so that equates to 1.4 grams and it gets
turned into roughly 0.7 grams of water and 1.2 grams of CO2.

Now that number is worst case for a big tough navy diver working
hard against the current not a little old wimp like me but it will
probably do for riding a bike but remember half that is basic life
support doing the same trip by electric tram staring aimlessly out
of the window.

Ride a kilometre in 2 minutes and the extra CO2 we get about 1 or
2 g/km but, conversely, I'm sat at my desk doing absolutely no
kilometres an hour at the moment and I'm still pumping out a gram
or so a minute while the Rangie is sitting still at home, totally
innocent of CO2 production until I start it up.

Another question is the fact that I have several tons of tree in
my garden running the reverse process. Can I claim credit for them?

nigelH


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On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:26:20 -0000, "Nigel Hewitt"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Another question is the fact that I have several tons of tree in
>my garden running the reverse process. Can I claim credit for them?
>
>nigelH
>
>
Remember the merkin who covered his (probably) cadillac with grass.

All starts to make sense.

David
 
On Friday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "Neil Brownlee" wrote:

> What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for example
> pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
> what? We are *told* it is bad....
>
> We are being given statistics which I can't ascertain.
>
> Now - how much CO2 does a cyclist exhale when cycling one km? How about a
> walker? How about an unfit person doing the same.
>
> I wonder.
>
> Anyone know if there's a repository of such info?

I think it's a standard figure for that particular vehicle model, rather
than a measurement for that vehicle, and about as useful for your
particular circumstances as the "official" fuel consumption.

But a little thought suggests that, since the carbon has to come from
the fuel, the CO2 output is proportional to the fuel consumed.

That doesn't help any comparison to cyclists, but there you also have to
allow for the "housekeeping"; the energy, and CO2 exhalation, associated
with being alive.

What's Gordon's next move? A carbon-based poll tax?

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 

"Neil Brownlee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for
> example
> pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
> what? We are *told* it is bad....
>
> We are being given statistics which I can't ascertain.
>
> Now - how much CO2 does a cyclist exhale when cycling one km? How about a
> walker? How about an unfit person doing the same.
>
> I wonder.
>
> Anyone know if there's a repository of such info?
>
> --
> Neil
>
>

Found these more scientifically based figures. Mind you cars are more
efficient these days and humans are becoming more un-healthy so the gap is
closing .... so I guess eventually you will get taxed if you walk .....
anyway here it is .. Richard

Amount of carbon dioxide that a car getting 27.5 miles per gallon
emits over 100,000 miles 31,752 kilograms
Amount of carbon dioxide that a human walking that same distance would
produce 59 kilograms


Sources: Noelle Knox, Detroit News, March 2, 1997. Jim Klein and Martha
Olson, Auto-Free Times, Winter 1996-1997. American Automobile Manufacturers
Association, World Motor Vehicle Data, 1997 ed. (Detroit, MI: 1997). Jane
Holtz Kay, Asphalt Nation, (New York, Crown Publishers: 1997). Steve Nadis
and James MacKenzie, Car Trouble, (Boston, Beacon Press: 1993). Human CO2
estimates: Jason Archibald.





 
On 2006-03-24, Nigel Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

> Another question is the fact that I have several tons of tree in
> my garden running the reverse process. Can I claim credit for them?

As long as you preserve any tree droppings to prevent the oxygen
consumed by dead tree matter as it decays outstripping that produced
by the tree itself! As a tree gets older this apparently starts to
happen as it drops more and begins to rot.

ISTR that about 80% of the world's oxygen comes from algae in the sea,
so forget the tree and stop cleaning the bath! I suspect that most of
that oxygen is dissolved into the sea though. There's a lot of sea.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
"Tim Hobbs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:12:12 -0000, "Neil Brownlee"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for
>>example
>>pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
>>what? We are *told* it is bad....
>>
>>We are being given statistics which I can't ascertain.
>>
>>Now - how much CO2 does a cyclist exhale when cycling one km? How about a
>>walker? How about an unfit person doing the same.
>>
>>I wonder.
>>
>>Anyone know if there's a repository of such info?
>
> I don't know, but you could do some fag packet maths to establish
> scale.
>
> Your engine inhales 4 litres ish 2000 times per minute roughly.

Well, only at 4000 rpm. At a more normal 2000 rpm, you could halve that.
And less again for a smaller engine.

>A cyclist probably inhales about the same (?) 60 times per minute.

He'd have to be a big lad. I had a lung function test a long time ago, and
ISRT that my lung capacity was 1500cc. I'm a fairly large build, so most
people probably less.
>
> That alone probably gives you the answer, but you could go further I
> suppose....

Your point is a good one, though. You could see some berk quoting the
figures on the Today programme - "the average cyclist exhales 100grams of
CO2 per mile cycled. If we stopped these selfish people poisoning our
environment, global warming... etc etc."

It would make as much sense as vilifying the motorist for the small amount
of pollution caused by cars when industry, and the aviation industry
especially, pump out so much more.

> Tim Hobbs


 
On Friday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "Richard"
wrote:

> Found these more scientifically based figures. Mind you cars are more
> efficient these days and humans are becoming more un-healthy so the gap is
> closing .... so I guess eventually you will get taxed if you walk .....
> anyway here it is .. Richard
>
> Amount of carbon dioxide that a car getting 27.5 miles per gallon
> emits over 100,000 miles 31,752 kilograms

That's about 200 g/km, or about 1900 g/l. Remember that over 2/3 of the
weight of CO2 is from the oxygen.



--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:02:48 -0000, "Richard"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Neil Brownlee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for
>> example
>> pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
>> what? We are *told* it is bad....
>
>Here are some interesting comparisons for some common cars.
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4834480.stm
>
>Richard

How much difference does running LPG make from running a petrol car?

 
Neil Brownlee nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 24/03/2006 09:12 by writing:
>
>
> Anyone know if there's a repository of such info?
>

Lung capacity is about 4 litres, and exhaled air is about 4.5% CO2.
(Inhaled is about 0.04%, so negligible for our purposes).

4 litres comes from me being told that was low for my size at a medical
(lots of respiratory problems over the years, but I'm a big bugger).

Consider someone working hard at 40 breaths per minute, that's
4.5/100*4*40 = 7.2 l of CO2/minute.

Fast cyclist = 20mph, or 1 mile in 3 minutes.

So that's 21.6 litres of CO2 per mile. At a density of 1.98 kg/m3 (1.98
g/litre), that's about 42g of CO2 per mile.

I don't think that proves anything.

Figures from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide







 
On or around Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:12:12 -0000, "Neil Brownlee"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for example
>pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
>what? We are *told* it is bad....
>

it's bad compared to a car which carries similar load and puts out say
180g/km CO2. Provided, of course, that CO2 is bad.

Much as I love Land Rovers, I have to admit that for example our discovery
doesn't have significantly more internal space than for example a Citroen
Berlingo Multispace... which is considerably more efficient.

The citroen wouldn't tow a 3T trailer, of course. But then again, it would
in all probability tow the normal small trailers we tow for the majority of
our towing just as well.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On or around Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:41:32 -0000, "John Smith" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>"Tim Hobbs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Your engine inhales 4 litres ish 2000 times per minute roughly.
>
>Well, only at 4000 rpm. At a more normal 2000 rpm, you could halve that.
>And less again for a smaller engine.

a 4-stroke NA engine has a swept volume of half it's capacity per
revolution. - so a 4.4 doing 2000 RPM inhales 2.2 * 2000 litres per minute.
Compressors and blowers are mostly rated in CFM of cubic feet per minute,
which are about 27 to the litre, so that's about 163 cfm or about 16 typical
garage-sized compressors. it's a LOT of air. And that's a NA engine, not a
supercharged one...

Neil: what's your computer reporting for average economy and what's your
best guess of average speed?

>It would make as much sense as vilifying the motorist for the small amount
>of pollution caused by cars when industry, and the aviation industry
>especially, pump out so much more.

ah, now that's a good point. Mind you - OK, one 747 puts out mucho CO2, but
how many 747s are there compared to cars?

's a bit like the thing about HRH Charlie's Bentley, which is chucking out 4
times the pollution of a small car, but there's onyl one of it and there are
millions, literally, of cars. I'd not be surprised to discover that on
average there are, all the time, in this country, about 5 million cars on
the road, just guessing.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25
 
On or around Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:53:51 -0000, "Richard"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

Not strictly relevant, but there seem to be an awful lot of news clients and
or services these days that are breaking threading, and I for one think it's
a) unnecessary and b) a pain the arse.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25
 
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> On or around Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:53:51 -0000, "Richard"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us
> thusly:
>
> Not strictly relevant, but there seem to be an awful lot of news
> clients and or services these days that are breaking threading, and I
> for one think it's a) unnecessary and b) a pain the arse.

But my client copes with it and keeps it in the origional thread even once
it has pilaged the subject line. I found the client that didn't was a pain
in the arse and could have got around it which meant it was also unecessary.

So until they make square pegs fit round holes assuming both are the same
length and volume then we'll just have to stick to using compressed clients
to fuel BBQ's

;-)

Lee
--
www.lrproject.com
Reaching the parts other Landrover restorers can't reach - JLo makes new
home in the USA.
Percy IIa - two Engines to the mile, awaits a new chassis.
Morph - He's "living the dream".


 
In message <[email protected]>, John Smith <[email protected]>
writes
>"Tim Hobbs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:12:12 -0000, "Neil Brownlee"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>What with all this stuff in the media about CO2 and my vehicles (for
>>>example
>>>pushing out 376g/km), I was wondering, is 376g/km bad - and compared to
>>>what? We are *told* it is bad....
>>>
>>>We are being given statistics which I can't ascertain.
>>>
>>>Now - how much CO2 does a cyclist exhale when cycling one km? How about a
>>>walker? How about an unfit person doing the same.
>>>
>>>I wonder.
>>>
>>>Anyone know if there's a repository of such info?
>>
>> I don't know, but you could do some fag packet maths to establish
>> scale.
>>
>> Your engine inhales 4 litres ish 2000 times per minute roughly.
>
>Well, only at 4000 rpm. At a more normal 2000 rpm, you could halve that.
>And less again for a smaller engine.
>
>>A cyclist probably inhales about the same (?) 60 times per minute.
>
>He'd have to be a big lad. I had a lung function test a long time ago, and
>ISRT that my lung capacity was 1500cc. I'm a fairly large build, so most
>people probably less.
>>
>> That alone probably gives you the answer, but you could go further I
>> suppose....
>
>Your point is a good one, though. You could see some berk quoting the
>figures on the Today programme - "the average cyclist exhales 100grams of
>CO2 per mile cycled. If we stopped these selfish people poisoning our
>environment, global warming... etc etc."
>
>It would make as much sense as vilifying the motorist for the small amount
>of pollution caused by cars when industry, and the aviation industry
>especially, pump out so much more.
>
>> Tim Hobbs
>
>
Hmm Better not go out and mow the lawn, I'll produce too much CO2. I'd
better just sit here quietly, breathing as little as possible and
watching the foot.... Oh no don't tell me, using the TV requires
electricity from power stations which burn coal...

So where can I find a comparison between the extra CO2 I would produce
gardening compared to that produced to enable me to sit and watch TV for
an hour and a half?

SWMBO will take a lot of convincing.
--
hugh
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