OT - building a curved fence

Since i dont know where else to ask this, i am wondering if there are
some woodworkingly inclined people round here..

My back yard has a 3-4 ft wall round it. I'd like to extend it up to 6
foot to make it a bit more private and keep the local chavlets out.
(since i back onto council garages and theyve discovered the joys of
stone chucking and coming into my garden as it is all fairly open.)

This would be easy if the wall was straight but some genious decided
to make it curve rather then going in straight lines like the edge
does on my deeds.

I'm thinking that the cheapest and easiest way to do it would to be to
build a wooden fence above the level of the bricks, and attach it to
uprights screwed to the inside of the wall.
However - since the whole thing curves slightly it looks like i need
to either do it in lots of small 2-4ft straight sections or curve the
whole thing.

Could i use lots of vertical slats cut to length fixed to a a couple
of bits of horizontal bracing which then attach to my uprights? Am i
best off overlapping them slightly or do they work fine just butted
up?

Is it possible to get wood that i can bend slightly horizontally - or
is it just likely to snap or not last/work very well if i did that?
and i should be planning to do it as lots of short straight sections?

Ta

All depends on the radius, but if it is not too tight a radius, you should
be able to get away by using normal fencing materials, B&Q sell the stuff.
Its rough sawn and treated, looks green. What you need to do is fit the
uprights, and achieve the bend with the rails, selecting the rails is
important as you don't want too many knotts else when you try to bend it, it
may well snap. You also need fresh rails, that appera kind of damp, as they
dry out they get brittle. just nail one end and have someone pull the rail
to give it the required set then nail in place.
Hope this helps
"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Since i dont know where else to ask this, i am wondering if there are
> some woodworkingly inclined people round here..
>
> My back yard has a 3-4 ft wall round it. I'd like to extend it up to 6
> foot to make it a bit more private and keep the local chavlets out.
> (since i back onto council garages and theyve discovered the joys of
> stone chucking and coming into my garden as it is all fairly open.)
>
> This would be easy if the wall was straight but some genious decided
> to make it curve rather then going in straight lines like the edge
> does on my deeds.
>
> I'm thinking that the cheapest and easiest way to do it would to be to
> build a wooden fence above the level of the bricks, and attach it to
> uprights screwed to the inside of the wall.
> However - since the whole thing curves slightly it looks like i need
> to either do it in lots of small 2-4ft straight sections or curve the
> whole thing.
>
> Could i use lots of vertical slats cut to length fixed to a a couple
> of bits of horizontal bracing which then attach to my uprights? Am i
> best off overlapping them slightly or do they work fine just butted
> up?
>
> Is it possible to get wood that i can bend slightly horizontally - or
> is it just likely to snap or not last/work very well if i did that?
> and i should be planning to do it as lots of short straight sections?
>
> Ta

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:57:28 GMT, "Dad" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>All depends on the radius, but if it is not too tight a radius, you should
>be able to get away by using normal fencing materials, B&Q sell the stuff.
>Its rough sawn and treated, looks green. What you need to do is fit the
>uprights, and achieve the bend with the rails, selecting the rails is
>important as you don't want too many knotts else when you try to bend it, it
>may well snap. You also need fresh rails, that appera kind of damp, as they
>dry out they get brittle. just nail one end and have someone pull the rail
>to give it the required set then nail in place.
>Hope this helps

Yes that helps thanks! and is pretty much what i was thinking/hoping!
I have already visited B&Q and been confused by the choice! (though i
found the treated section!)

I will look for some fresh looking rails with no knots in.

The radius isnt too bad as its a gradual curve. I suppose that the
amount of uprights i require depends on how well i manage to bend it
to go flush?


Any recommendation on how long my uprights should be? I suppose that
if i make them so that they go as far down the inside of the wall as
they can without touching the floor would be strongest.
I also assume I am best drilling and rawlplugging and then screwing
into breezeblock type wall blocks to fix posts to them?

In message <[email protected]>, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> writes
>Since i dont know where else to ask this, i am wondering if there are
>some woodworkingly inclined people round here..
>
>My back yard has a 3-4 ft wall round it. I'd like to extend it up to 6
>foot to make it a bit more private and keep the local chavlets out.
>(since i back onto council garages and theyve discovered the joys of
>stone chucking and coming into my garden as it is all fairly open.)
>
>This would be easy if the wall was straight but some genious decided
>to make it curve rather then going in straight lines like the edge
>does on my deeds.
>
>I'm thinking that the cheapest and easiest way to do it would to be to
>build a wooden fence above the level of the bricks, and attach it to
>uprights screwed to the inside of the wall.
>However - since the whole thing curves slightly it looks like i need
>to either do it in lots of small 2-4ft straight sections or curve the
>whole thing.
>
>Could i use lots of vertical slats cut to length fixed to a a couple
>of bits of horizontal bracing which then attach to my uprights? Am i
>best off overlapping them slightly or do they work fine just butted
>up?
>
>Is it possible to get wood that i can bend slightly horizontally - or
>is it just likely to snap or not last/work very well if i did that?
>and i should be planning to do it as lots of short straight sections?
>
>Ta
Try uk.rec.gardening
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

Tom Woods wrote:

> Any recommendation on how long my uprights should be? I suppose that
> if i make them so that they go as far down the inside of the wall as
> they can without touching the floor would be strongest.

Yes

> I also assume I am best drilling and rawlplugging and then screwing
> into breezeblock type wall blocks to fix posts to them?

Dynabolts or similar - rawlplugs won't be up to the job.

http://www.itwramset.co.uk/frameset.php?p=catalogue&entry_id=1&subentry_id=1


--
EMB

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:21:25 +0100, Tom Woods <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:57:28 GMT, "Dad" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> All depends on the radius, but if it is not too tight a radius, you
>> should
>> be able to get away by using normal fencing materials, B&Q sell the
>> stuff.
>> Its rough sawn and treated, looks green. What you need to do is fit the
>> uprights, and achieve the bend with the rails, selecting the rails is
>> important as you don't want too many knotts else when you try to bend
>> it, it
>> may well snap. You also need fresh rails, that appera kind of damp, as
>> they
>> dry out they get brittle. just nail one end and have someone pull the
>> rail
>> to give it the required set then nail in place.
>> Hope this helps
>
> Yes that helps thanks! and is pretty much what i was thinking/hoping!
> I have already visited B&Q and been confused by the choice! (though i
> found the treated section!)
>
> I will look for some fresh looking rails with no knots in.
>
> The radius isnt too bad as its a gradual curve. I suppose that the
> amount of uprights i require depends on how well i manage to bend it
> to go flush?
>
>
> Any recommendation on how long my uprights should be? I suppose that
> if i make them so that they go as far down the inside of the wall as
> they can without touching the floor would be strongest.

Do you think the brickwork is upto the stresses imposed by bent timber?
if not, think about burying the end in a bucket of concrete.

> I also assume I am best drilling and rawlplugging and then screwing
> into breezeblock type wall blocks to fix posts to them?

depends on the material and thickness of the blocks - consider coachbolts
(or similar) and dirty girtbig washers.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

Dad wrote:

> All depends on the radius, but if it is not too tight a radius, you should
> be able to get away by using normal fencing materials, B&Q sell the stuff.
> Its rough sawn and treated, looks green. What you need to do is fit the
> uprights, and achieve the bend with the rails, selecting the rails is
> important as you don't want too many knotts else when you try to bend it,
> it may well snap. You also need fresh rails, that appera kind of damp, as
> they dry out they get brittle. just nail one end and have someone pull the
> rail to give it the required set then nail in place.
> Hope this helps
> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Since i dont know where else to ask this, i am wondering if there are
>> some woodworkingly inclined people round here..
>>
>> My back yard has a 3-4 ft wall round it. I'd like to extend it up to 6
>> foot to make it a bit more private and keep the local chavlets out.
>> (since i back onto council garages and theyve discovered the joys of
>> stone chucking and coming into my garden as it is all fairly open.)
>>
>> This would be easy if the wall was straight but some genious decided
>> to make it curve rather then going in straight lines like the edge
>> does on my deeds.
>>
>> I'm thinking that the cheapest and easiest way to do it would to be to
>> build a wooden fence above the level of the bricks, and attach it to
>> uprights screwed to the inside of the wall.
>> However - since the whole thing curves slightly it looks like i need
>> to either do it in lots of small 2-4ft straight sections or curve the
>> whole thing.
>>
>> Could i use lots of vertical slats cut to length fixed to a a couple
>> of bits of horizontal bracing which then attach to my uprights? Am i
>> best off overlapping them slightly or do they work fine just butted
>> up?
>>
>> Is it possible to get wood that i can bend slightly horizontally - or
>> is it just likely to snap or not last/work very well if i did that?
>> and i should be planning to do it as lots of short straight sections?
>>
>> Ta
You can make curved timber by laminating it - use dressed strips thin enough
bend to the required radius, make a jig to hold them in shape and clamp and
glue using a marine grade waterproof glue. Then finish as you normally
would.
JD

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I have already visited B&Q and been confused by the choice! (though i
> found the treated section!)

Have a look for a local timber yard, the one I use is a fraction of the
price of B&Q for far better timber.

Greg

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Any recommendation on how long my uprights should be? I suppose that
> if i make them so that they go as far down the inside of the wall as
> they can without touching the floor would be strongest.

If you've got the energy then dig good post holes about 2 feet deep and
concrete the uprights in, 3"x3" treated timbers are the norm. Then you won't
need to fix to the wall at all and won't put stress on it, remember the
wooden fence will give naturally in the wind and transmitting that to a
rigid wall is not the best idea.

Greg

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:35:56 +0100, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Any recommendation on how long my uprights should be? I suppose that
>> if i make them so that they go as far down the inside of the wall as
>> they can without touching the floor would be strongest.
>
>Do you think the brickwork is upto the stresses imposed by bent timber?
>if not, think about burying the end in a bucket of concrete.

the brickwork aint too bad, though it isnt perfect. im only after 3
foot of woodwork on the top, and using concrete introduces another few
quid of cost per post and some more work.
>
>> I also assume I am best drilling and rawlplugging and then screwing
>> into breezeblock type wall blocks to fix posts to them?
>
>depends on the material and thickness of the blocks - consider coachbolts
>(or similar) and dirty girtbig washers.

the blocks are the size of breezeblocks but solid (no hole in the
centre).

its a fairly nice area (as ex/council estates go) but we seem to be
getting an influx of apprentice chavs from a road or two over(which
has deaths from gun crime rather than old age).
Im not expecting it to withstand a lot of force but mainly want it to
keep prying eyes out and remove the temptation.

In message <[email protected]>, JD <[email protected]>
writes
>Dad wrote:
>
>> All depends on the radius, but if it is not too tight a radius, you should
>> be able to get away by using normal fencing materials, B&Q sell the stuff.
>> Its rough sawn and treated, looks green. What you need to do is fit the
>> uprights, and achieve the bend with the rails, selecting the rails is
>> important as you don't want too many knotts else when you try to bend it,
>> it may well snap. You also need fresh rails, that appera kind of damp, as
>> they dry out they get brittle. just nail one end and have someone pull the
>> rail to give it the required set then nail in place.
>> Hope this helps
>> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Since i dont know where else to ask this, i am wondering if there are
>>> some woodworkingly inclined people round here..
>>>
>>> My back yard has a 3-4 ft wall round it. I'd like to extend it up to 6
>>> foot to make it a bit more private and keep the local chavlets out.
>>> (since i back onto council garages and theyve discovered the joys of
>>> stone chucking and coming into my garden as it is all fairly open.)
>>>
>>> This would be easy if the wall was straight but some genious decided
>>> to make it curve rather then going in straight lines like the edge
>>> does on my deeds.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking that the cheapest and easiest way to do it would to be to
>>> build a wooden fence above the level of the bricks, and attach it to
>>> uprights screwed to the inside of the wall.
>>> However - since the whole thing curves slightly it looks like i need
>>> to either do it in lots of small 2-4ft straight sections or curve the
>>> whole thing.
>>>
>>> Could i use lots of vertical slats cut to length fixed to a a couple
>>> of bits of horizontal bracing which then attach to my uprights? Am i
>>> best off overlapping them slightly or do they work fine just butted
>>> up?
>>>
>>> Is it possible to get wood that i can bend slightly horizontally - or
>>> is it just likely to snap or not last/work very well if i did that?
>>> and i should be planning to do it as lots of short straight sections?
>>>
>>> Ta
>You can make curved timber by laminating it - use dressed strips thin enough
>bend to the required radius, make a jig to hold them in shape and clamp and
>glue using a marine grade waterproof glue. Then finish as you normally
>would.
>JD
According to my book of words you can curve timber by making a series of
deep parallel cuts about an inch apart according to required radius.
Never tried it though.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:19:22 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

> In message <[email protected]>, JD <[email protected]>
> writes
>> Dad wrote:
>>
>>> All depends on the radius, but if it is not too tight a radius, you
>>> should
>>> be able to get away by using normal fencing materials, B&Q sell the
>>> stuff.
>>> Its rough sawn and treated, looks green. What you need to do is fit the
>>> uprights, and achieve the bend with the rails, selecting the rails is
>>> important as you don't want too many knotts else when you try to bend
>>> it,
>>> it may well snap. You also need fresh rails, that appera kind of damp,
>>> as
>>> they dry out they get brittle. just nail one end and have someone pull
>>> the
>>> rail to give it the required set then nail in place.
>>> Hope this helps
>>> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Since i dont know where else to ask this...
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to get wood that i can bend slightly horizontally - or
>>>> is it just likely to snap or not last/work very well if i did that?
>>>> and i should be planning to do it as lots of short straight sections?
>>>>
>>>> Ta
>> You can make curved timber by laminating it - use dressed strips thin
>> enough
>> bend to the required radius, make a jig to hold them in shape and clamp
>> and
>> glue using a marine grade waterproof glue. Then finish as you normally
>> would.
>> JD
> According to my book of words you can curve timber by making a series of
> deep parallel cuts about an inch apart according to required radius.
> Never tried it though.

You can - always struck me that this introduces much larger surface area
and is therefore not suitable for outdoor applications.

The laminating method described above is IM(NS)HO much better for this
type of job.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

William Tasso wrote:

> The laminating method described above is IM(NS)HO much better for this
> type of job.

Like William says, kerfing is a terrible method, except in indoor
applications, and only when its hidden well. Its alright for making
templates for laminations though.

Steve

William Tasso wrote:

|| On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:19:22 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
||
||| In message <[email protected]>, JD
||| <[email protected]> writes
|||| Dad wrote:
||||
||||| All depends on the radius, but if it is not too tight a radius,
||||| you should
||||| be able to get away by using normal fencing materials, B&Q sell
||||| the stuff.
||||| Its rough sawn and treated, looks green. What you need to do is
||||| fit the uprights, and achieve the bend with the rails, selecting
||||| the rails is important as you don't want too many knotts else
||||| when you try to bend it,
||||| it may well snap. You also need fresh rails, that appera kind of
||||| damp, as
||||| they dry out they get brittle. just nail one end and have someone
||||| pull the
||||| rail to give it the required set then nail in place.
||||| Hope this helps
||||| "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
||||| news:[email protected]...
|||||| Since i dont know where else to ask this...
||||||
|||||| Is it possible to get wood that i can bend slightly horizontally
|||||| - or is it just likely to snap or not last/work very well if i
|||||| did that? and i should be planning to do it as lots of short
|||||| straight sections?
||||||
|||||| Ta
|||| You can make curved timber by laminating it - use dressed strips
|||| thin enough
|||| bend to the required radius, make a jig to hold them in shape and
|||| clamp and
|||| glue using a marine grade waterproof glue. Then finish as you
|||| normally would.
|||| JD
||| According to my book of words you can curve timber by making a
||| series of deep parallel cuts about an inch apart according to
||| required radius. Never tried it though.
||
|| You can - always struck me that this introduces much larger surface
|| area and is therefore not suitable for outdoor applications.
||
|| The laminating method described above is IM(NS)HO much better for
|| this type of job.
||
|| --
|| William Tasso
||
|| Land Rover - 110 V8
|| Discovery - V8

Or steaming. Building a steamer big enough could be an interesting project!

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.

> In message <[email protected]>, Tom Woods
> <[email protected]> writes
> >Since i dont know where else to ask this, i am wondering if there are
> >some woodworkingly inclined people round here..
> >
> >My back yard has a 3-4 ft wall round it. I'd like to extend it up to 6
> >foot to make it a bit more private and keep the local chavlets out.
> >(since i back onto council garages and theyve discovered the joys of
> >stone chucking and coming into my garden as it is all fairly open.)
> >
> >This would be easy if the wall was straight but some genious decided
> >to make it curve rather then going in straight lines like the edge
> >does on my deeds.
> >

I can't see the point of going to all that trouble, why not just knock
the wall down and rebuild it to 6 ft following the straight line on your
deeds??

Martin

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:41:22 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I can't see the point of going to all that trouble, why not just knock
>the wall down and rebuild it to 6 ft following the straight line on your
>deeds??

I would have thought that the bricks would be more expensive than wood
for the fence, and judging by how long it took me to rebuild one end
of the wall it would take a lot longer than working with wood!

I will check out the price of blocks that match the existing to see if
i can just build 3 or 4 more rows ontop of it and but some buttresses
on the inside.