Opinions on MOT - LR garage or not?

Judith vaguely muttered something like ...

> I was well used to stripping down my Series III's brakes and unseizing
> the cylinders (or burning oil off the shoes!) but how easy would this
> be to fix myself? I presume that the calipers/pads are not moving
> completely freely (?). Could I press the calipers/pads in/out
> repeatedly to free them up?

If the pads are very worn the pistons may have pushed further out of their
calipers than normal, so after removing the pads, [1] I generally use a
g-cramp (more often a bit of wood) to press them back in again, but watch
the master cylinder fluid level. If you have another bit of wood that's a
tad wider than the pads you can use this for the calipers/pistons to press
against, and work the brake pedal so that the piston leaves a mark on the
wood, and can give an indication if the pistons are sticking on one side or
another .. but it is only an approximation ..

Clean all the accumulated crap from the calipers and 'slidey' bits where the
pads reside, I use a handmade scraper and a wire brush. Then use Copaslip
(I think that's what it's called, the labels worn off years ago) grease,
which is a high temperature anti-seize grease, pasting a very thin smear on
all mating / sliding surfaces of the pads and calipers. Don't get any
grease at all on the pad friction material, or even within sniffing distance
if possible ..

Brute force shouldn't really (though this _is_ a Landrover) be needed unless
there's lots of corrosion / crud to get in the way, and usually involves the
smallest item, the split pins ...

Have fun .. they're easier to do than S3 brakes ...

[1] Remove ssmall split pin behind the caliper, then pull the pad
location/retaining pins, while holding the anti-rattle springs. Pads should
now pull out easily .. Replacement, as the saying goes, is a reversal of the
removals procedure, but the springs can be fiddly to hold ... It is _much_
easier if you have all new pins/split pins/springs to work with. They come
in kits and cost bugger all ..

--
Paul ...

(8(|) ... Homer Rocks

"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:58:36 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>Personally I'd take mine to someone who knows Landies and knows what to
>expect. Just my opinion. What you want is an honest assessment of your
>vehicle, passed if it meets the legal requirements and advised on things
>which are marginal or not covered by the MOT.


I think you're right. I'll take it to the garage that does the MOTs
for the franchised dealer. Hopefully I won't have to pay the silly
full MOT price if I go direct rather than through the dealer.

I used to have fun with the Series III. The local (non LR) garage
couldn't work out how to open the bonnet (because there's no lever
inside the cab!) or how to switch on the side/headlights and I would
never let them test the brakes on a rolling road! (I can get right
stroppy, I can!)

Judith

Judith wrote:

>
> I would never let them test the brakes on a rolling road!

Why? Any series that is in 2WD is fine on a rolling road - you may have
got stroppy but you were also 100% *wrong*.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Judith wrote:
>
> >
> > I would never let them test the brakes on a rolling road!
>
> Why? Any series that is in 2WD is fine on a rolling road - you may have
> got stroppy but you were also 100% *wrong*.

With a Disco, what's the "correct" way of testing the brakes then, and
should I need to find a specialised tester?

Cheers,
Aled.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Aled) wrote:

>
> With a Disco, what's the "correct" way of testing the brakes then, and
> should I need to find a specialised tester?

The place we use drives down the road with a passenger holding an inertia
tester

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk

"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The fact that the washers may work during an MOT test does not guarantee
> they will ever after and sods law dictates that they won't when you most
> need them.
>

Actually sods law says that the windscreen washers work perfectly and
powerfully right up until the moment the MOT tester presses the knob, and
then two large pieces of green snot block both washer jets simultaneously.
......But then you could argue that THAT is when you most need them to work.


Steve

On or around Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:32:11 +0100, "Larry" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>As to things like windscreen washers, it depends on whether they feel like
>working or not, and exhausts blowing should be something between you and
>your neighbours. (mind you I have just fixed mine properly at last)

if the 'zorst blows CO into the cabin, and you could pass out while driving
it, with possibly fatal results.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)

On or around Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:09 +0100 (BST),
[email protected] (Niamh Holding) enlightened us thusly:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Aled) wrote:
>
>>
>> With a Disco, what's the "correct" way of testing the brakes then, and
>> should I need to find a specialised tester?
>
>The place we use drives down the road with a passenger holding an inertia
>tester

only ever had that once, on an old SI, which had so much transmission drag
that it made no sense on the rolling road.

disco should be fine, provided you don't engage the centre diff lock.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)

On or around Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:16:05 GMT, [email protected] (QrizB)
enlightened us thusly:

>On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:24:05 +0100, "Andrew Carr"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I remember I once had a 4wd drive Subaru took it a local fit and forget type
>>place and had the tester report that the had brake was non functional. I
>>explained that the hand brake worked on the front wheels. Watched then put
>>back on the ramp lift it and every 'fitter' came and had a look at the front
>>callipers, then back onto the rolling road and I was told that the hand
>>brake was now fine.
>
>'Tis the same with the Citroen BX.

and they don' half get confused by citroen suspension, if they've not seen
it before.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10

Judith wrote:

> Manuel passed his MOT. I went to the independent garage which does
> all the MOTs for James Edwards in Chester. You could tell he'd seen a
> few Land Rovers before, which was reassuring!
>
> Although the brakes work, I was advised that all of the discs are
> corroded/rusty. I had already seen this myself but wasn't quite sure
> what to do.
>
> It looks as if the pads are not pressing equally over the discs. ie
> there is a part of each disc which is not getting any contact with the
> pad and, therefore, is going rusty.

Quite possibly siezed pistons and/or caliper slides. Strip &
disassemble the calipers. Check that the pistons aren't rusty or pitted
and reassemble with new seals (and pistons if required). Clean any rust
of the discs with emery cloth (really clean - rust eats brake pads) or
if the discs are badly scored get them machined or replace them. Put the
calipers back onto the vehicle with new pads, bed them in gently and
you're right for another umpteen thousand miles.

Another post mentions pushing the pistons back into the calipers. There
is only one "right" way to do this and it's absolutely vital on ABS
vehicles as it stops all the collected crap in the caliper being pushed
back through the ABS unit and knackering it. Use a brake hose clamp to
clamp off the flexible hose, open the bleeder, then force the piston
back (the excess fluid will exit through the bleeder). I generally use
a large pair of polygrips to force the piston back - if they are tight
enough to need a g-cramp then they are partially siezed and should be
pulled apart and repaired as above. Once it's all reassembled give the
brakes a bleed. Even on non-ABS vehicles this is a good idea as it also
keeps the crap from being pushed back to the master cylinder where it
does a good job of wearing out the seals.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:06:21 +1200, EMB <[email protected]> wrote:



<snip useful info>

> There
>is only one "right" way to do this and it's absolutely vital on ABS
>vehicles as it stops all the collected crap in the caliper being pushed
>back through the ABS unit and knackering it.


Oo-eck! I forgot about ABS. It looks like I'm going to learn a lot
from this job!

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Judith

One of the reasons I drive a series is that I don't have to worry about all
that ABS stuff. I don't feel any the less secure without it, though I
wouldn't mind a set of discs.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

"Judith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:06:21 +1200, EMB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
>
> Oo-eck! I forgot about ABS. It looks like I'm going to learn a lot
> from this job!
>
> Thanks for the advice everyone.
>
> Judith

"Judith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:24:07 +0100, Aled <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >With a Disco, what's the "correct" way of testing the brakes then, and
> >should I need to find a specialised tester?
>
> At the MOT garage I used today, they only have a single axle rolling
> road so they can't test the brakes of 4WD vehicles. The tester did a
> very short road test of the brakes. He said he was checking that the
> ABS light went out, that the vehicle stopped and that there was no
> veering to the side.
>
> I'm not sure why he mentioned ABS. Although I should think that ABS
> is not MOT-able, perhaps the warning light would give indication of
> "something" not being right.
>
> Judith

Unfortunately ABS is MOT-able or at least the warning light is
it must illuminate then extinguish at the correct time so no
taking the bulb out
I have tested most 4x4's on a single axle brake tester the only
problem I have encountered is with Freelanders if you check
for imbalance on the front so both rollers are turning it locks
the viscous coupling and climbs out of the rollers


Andy
--
SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big it's mean it's really really green

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 06:20:22 +0100, "Paul - xxx"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Mine's a '96 300 Tdi ..
>

And mine is a 97 300 Tdi (so somewehere between 7 and 8 years old
seems to be right for dripping)

The rear diff seems to be seeping, too. I'm not sure where - it looks
like it's coming from around what looks like sealing compound holding
the two halves of the diff together. It's nothing major ....... it
cleaned up nicely with a bit of kitchen roll!

Judith

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:33:13 +1200, EMB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Paul - xxx wrote:
>
>>
>> Heh, didn't know about that .. mine doesn't have ABS
>
>One of the benefits of being a (good) mechanic is that you can get along
>to training courses, read the trade publications and learn from others
>in the industry. Judging by the some of the comments here about the UK
>automotive repair industry I should emigrate and set up fixing
>Solihull's finest.

Really good mechanics (as opposed to uniformed fitters) are very
difficult to find. And when you do find one, there's always some git
with a purple 101 who's got him booked until 2007.




--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'95 Discovery V8i aka "The Disco" (FOR SALE)
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

Judith vaguely muttered something like ...
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 06:20:22 +0100, "Paul - xxx"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Mine's a '96 300 Tdi ..
>>
>
> And mine is a 97 300 Tdi (so somewehere between 7 and 8 years old
> seems to be right for dripping)

Yeah .. I dunno why, but we used to think ours was a '97, maybe the P plate
... Actually, just looked through documents and I've just found out why
... It was first actually registered on 2/8/96 on the V5, but the first
keeper and only other owner, first acquired it on 7/3/97 .. so it sat on the
dealer forecourt for a few months before 'living' ... Which we know it did
as first owner said it came to him with only 6 miles on the clock ...

> The rear diff seems to be seeping, too. I'm not sure where - it looks
> like it's coming from around what looks like sealing compound holding
> the two halves of the diff together. It's nothing major ....... it
> cleaned up nicely with a bit of kitchen roll!

<smug mode> Everywhere's nice and dry on mine. </smug mode>

We got it last September with 55k on the clock, it's now got 72k on and had
absolutely no problems that weren't self-inflicted .. Like the 31" tyres
scuffing and bending the rear wheel arch, and me tearing off the rear bumper
end caps etc when off-roading. Nothing that can't be fixed with just baling
wire, gaffer tape and a hammer .. so just like my old S3 then ..


--
Paul ...

(8(|) ... Homer Rocks

"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

On or around Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:06:16 +0100, Judith
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Although the brakes work, I was advised that all of the discs are
>corroded/rusty. I had already seen this myself but wasn't quite sure
>what to do.

Use 'em. the more you use 'em, the cleaner they get.

having said that...

check the disc thickness. they should be something around 13mm, if they're
less than about 11mm you may as well replace them anyway, as they're not
expensive from Paddock et al.

same applies if the discs are very pitted. surface red rust on an
otherwise-smooth disc happens within days if the vehicle is standing and is
of no consequence and will disappear after a journey of 20 miles or so,
provided you use the brakes.

If the pads are noticeably worn (less than about 3-4mm left) then change
them at the same time.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:09:53 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:53:25 +0100, "Larry" <[email protected]>
>enlightened us thusly:
>
>>One of the reasons I drive a series is that I don't have to worry about all
>>that ABS stuff. I don't feel any the less secure without it, though I
>>wouldn't mind a set of discs.
>
>most discos don't have ABS either... but the 4-pot caliper discs on the
>front of the disco/RR/110 are seriously good stoppers.

True, but the whole system does 'go off' with age. Mine got to the
point where they would hardly lock the front wheels in the dry.

New fluid, hoses and better pads made a world of difference. I'd
strongly recommend new fluid and hoses to anyone with a vague pedal -
they don't have to be like that.
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'95 Discovery V8i aka "The Disco" (FOR SALE)
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On or around Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:53:25 +0100, "Larry" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>One of the reasons I drive a series is that I don't have to worry about all
>that ABS stuff. I don't feel any the less secure without it, though I
>wouldn't mind a set of discs.

most discos don't have ABS either... but the 4-pot caliper discs on the
front of the disco/RR/110 are seriously good stoppers.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

Manuel passed his MOT. I went to the independent garage which does
all the MOTs for James Edwards in Chester. You could tell he'd seen a
few Land Rovers before, which was reassuring!

Although the brakes work, I was advised that all of the discs are
corroded/rusty. I had already seen this myself but wasn't quite sure
what to do.

It looks as if the pads are not pressing equally over the discs. ie
there is a part of each disc which is not getting any contact with the
pad and, therefore, is going rusty.

I was well used to stripping down my Series III's brakes and unseizing
the cylinders (or burning oil off the shoes!) but how easy would this
be to fix myself? I presume that the calipers/pads are not moving
completely freely (?). Could I press the calipers/pads in/out
repeatedly to free them up?

Am I on completely the wrong tack here?

I don't want to just replace all the pads and clean up/replace the
discs just to find that same happens again in a few thousand miles.

(This is all theoretical until I get my wheel nuts correctly torqued!)

Judith