One for the P38 EAS Guru's

Decided to refurbish the Valve Block a couple of days ago and obtained an "O" ring kit together with a diaphragm (Not from Holland).
The compressor seal was replaced a couple of months ago with a "Cream" coloured one, the cylinder is a clean as a whistle and does not show any signs of wear. On th bench, the compressor shot up to around 185 p.s.i. and held the pressure for over 4 hours after being powered down. The air springs were replaced all round about 4 years ago and show no signs of wear or deteriation. I had the car up on ramps a few months ago and checked the complete system for air leaks and all was well, I used a foam based leak detector spray as used by Gas fitters etc.
After rfitting the Valve Block, I checked the suspension heights, I had to tweak the bit counts a little and finished up with all corners within 5mm on all heights. The suspension raised and lowered briskly between heights and the heights were consistently the same.
Came to move the car this morning and it took ages to reach Standard height but eventually got there. The compressor was cutting in & out every 10 secs. or so and it did not appear that the suspension was creeping down.
After leaving the car standing outside, on level ground, for about 4 hours, it looks like the left hand side..front and rear is on the bump stops, the right side is fine. The car was left at Standard height.

Apologies for the long post but I thought I would give as much info. as possibl..anyway, I know some of you like a "Book at Bedtime" !!

As you know, I do not have the Faultmate anymore but do have the RSW software, Courtesy of Datatek. There were no faults logged before todays episode and the EAS has been trouble free to date. I will however check tomorrow and report back.
Just in from servicing Er Indoors Vectra.:tea::smokin::violin:

How long ago did you refurb the Valve Block??

Could it be a loose pipe collet in the block causing a small leak?

Have you checked the exhaust silencer? If it has white deposits in it, it could indicate the Air Dryer is breaking up and small dessicant debris has found its way under a valve seat causing it not to seal properly.

Slow to rise could indicate a leak in the storage side of the system, it has been known for one ofthe NRV's to not seat properly causing a slow leak from the tank, take the exhaust silencer off and check for a tiny leak coming through there too.

The Wammer and Datatek (as you know) are the defacto geniuses on the EAS....

Saint.V8 said:

How long ago did you refurb the Valve Block??

Did it two days ago

Could it be a loose pipe collet in the block causing a small leak?

Checked for leaks after reconnecting the pipework following the rebuild

Have you checked the exhaust silencer? If it has white deposits in it, it could indicate the Air Dryer is breaking up and small dessicant debris has found its way under a valve seat causing it not to seal properly.

The silencer was as clean as a whistle when removed, as was the valve block when stripped.

Slow to rise could indicate a leak in the storage side of the system, it has been known for one ofthe NRV's to not seat properly causing a slow leak from the tank, take the exhaust silencer off and check for a tiny leak coming through there too.

I will check there tomorrow.

The Wammer and Datatek (as you know) are the defacto geniuses on the EAS....

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input Saint..All ideas,comments etc. appreciated.

I would recommend you to start by installing a pressure gauge to see what's going on in the tank. You just need a 1/8'' to 6mm T and the gauge itself. Then install it inline with the hose going to the tank. That way you can check if the tank is loosing pressure overnight or if the compressor isn't doing its job properly.

I find it strange that you found your RR leaning to one side. It should have self leveled.

Did my valve block last year and had similar symptoms to yours anyway like you checked everything ten times and couldn't find the cause in the end gave up and striped the valve
Block again and found I'd put one of the needle valves in back to front it had snapped and half sealed the hole making it kinda work hope that makes sence

HU5SH said:

Did my valve block last year and had similar symptoms to yours anyway like you checked everything ten times and couldn't find the cause in the end gave up and striped the valve
Block again and found I'd put one of the needle valves in back to front it had snapped and half sealed the hole making it kinda work hope that makes sence

Click to expand...

:behindsofa:
Thanks for the input.....your comment makes sense.
When I was rebuilding the block, I had the article on Rangerovers.net open on the PC in the garage and noted that one of the non return valves is the opposite way round to the other two, there is a picture on there which shows the orientation. I am 99.9% sure that I put them back correctly and they were seated o.k. when I screwed the housing back to the main block.
However, being human and sometimes wrong, maybe that could be the cause.
I will get the block out again and double check later today hopefully.

Are you sure the air pipes have been pushed in all the way? I found with new O rings it was really difficult to push the air pipes in past the O rings, and you can end up with a small leak. Maybe a fresh leak test on the valve block is called for?

John, some of the replacement diaphragms leak due to a dimensional problem although I can't see that would make it drop on one side. If it were me I would just strip it again in case any of the "O" rings displaced during re-assembly.

Thanks for the input Guys...appreciated :clap2:
Hope to get the car back in the garage later today after taking 'Er Indoors out shopping and I will again remove the valve block and strip it down.
I remember noticing that with the non return valves, the seatings in the block are deeper on one side and have a chamfer which I presume is for the small steel cone with the "O" ring fitted, to seat...is my assumtion correct ?

This is the procedure and reference used during the rebuild http://paulp38a.com/99p38a/eas-valve-block-renew/

I am 100% certain that all pipework was inserted correctly and fully home, the pipe ends were undamaged.

The slightest smear of Parkers "O" Ring lubricant was applied to the "O" rings to hold them in place.

Regarding the diaphragm, it has a steel "Disc" on the hollow side which I presume is for the small spring to locate against rather than the rubber on the "Flat" face.

I will come back later with my findings.


**UPDATE**
I have just looked again at the rebuild article and notice that the Orange type diaphragm shown is the same as the one I have fitted and the photo shows the rubber, flat face is against the spring when assembled...the opposite to what I have done.

Keep you posted !!!

Irishrover said:

Thanks for the input Guys...appreciated :clap2:
Hope to get the car back in the garage later today after taking 'Er Indoors out shopping and I will again remove the valve block and strip it down.
I remember noticing that with the non return valves, the seatings in the block are deeper on one side and have a chamfer which I presume is for the small steel cone with the "O" ring fitted, to seat...is my assumtion correct ?

This is the procedure and reference used during the rebuild EAS Valve Block Renew « PaulP38A.com

I am 100% certain that all pipework was inserted correctly and fully home, the pipe ends were undamaged.

The slightest smear of Parkers "O" Ring lubricant was applied to the "O" rings to hold them in place.

Regarding the diaphragm, it has a steel "Disc" on the hollow side which I presume is for the small spring to locate against rather than the rubber on the "Flat" face.

I will come back later with my findings.

Click to expand...

John diaphragm has only one purpose. That is to seal gallery when tank is being filled. It is supposed to leak against spring pressure to exhaust air from bags when suspension is lowered or when compressor shuts down. However there should be no air at all coming from it when car is sat level with compressor off. If there is any escape at that time then you either have a leaking NRV1 or much less likely air is escaping from a bag. But that is unlikely, as two valves, the relivent corner valve, and the exhaust valve would both have to be leaking. The only O rings that can cause a leak on a valve are the ones on the bottom of the plastic valve seat where it is sealed to block. There is no pressure above in valve, in seat chamber or around solenoid unless air is being put in or exhausted. If you have over tightened the screws that hold the valve seat base in place it can distort the base of the seat block causing a weep of air. Rubbing this gently on some 320 paper until it is flat cures this. All screws should be just nipped with a little retainer on threads.

**UPDATE**
Stripped the Valve Block down this morning and found two mistakes-I had put one of the non return valves in upside down and on closer inspection of the diaphragm, found that the original metal "Washer" needed to be fitted, which I hadn't done. Rectified both of these errors. :censored::hysterically_laughi
Checked the placement of all solenoid "O" rings (O.K.) and all pipe collett "O" rings..again O.K.
Checked the new compressor seal condition (Fitted a few weeks ago) and that also looks fine.
Started the car and after a couple of minutes she started to rise up to Standard height and stayed there..all corners are well within the +/- 7mm tolerance.
Connected up the EAS software and she went to all heights quickly, and again all were within +/- 7mm.
Sprayed leak detector around the pipework at the EAS box-no leaks.
Switched off the engine and tidied the bench up, put the tools away etc., had a cuppa and smoke...guess what ???...The L.H. side (Front & rear) measures 740mm Arch to Floor and the R.H. side is 790mm Arch to Floor !!! (Standard should be 810mm). I expect some settling but thought it would be uniform across all four corners.
I am 110% certain that the Valve Block has been rebuilt correctly, there was no damage or scoring to any of the mating faces & "O" ring seatings , the solenoid screws are correctly tightened and retained with low strength Loctite.
I will leave her overnight and see if she settles more evenly, plus see how she rises.
Thanks for all the input Guys..appreciated :clap2::clap2:
Will update again tomorrow.......

John, I have done 3 valve blocks recently. I have found that they seem to take a little while to settle down. After a month, I can leave my car for a week and it doesn't drop enough for the access light to light when I turn it on, whereas it would sink a little at first.

Thanks for that Keith.
I will have a look at things tomorrow after it has stood overnight.
On a different note, I couldn't get the RSW software to depressurise the system....yes, I checked the box to confirm that is what I wanted and the program was handshaking with the PC !! am I missing something ???

Yet another update.....
The car is still dropping onto the bump stops, front & rear, LH side after about half an hour despite the RH staying at Standard height.
I have done a bit of research and find that there are different valve poppets used in the solenoid valves. The airspring valves use the same type of poppet and the exhaust and diaphragm valves use a different type.
When I stripped the block, I removed all of the valve bases and stripped them down one at a time to replace the stem "O" ring. All of the valve bases are the same size (Except of course the Inlet valve which is smaller) and it is impossible to see which type of poppet is fitted when the valve base is assembled.
Yet again I will dismantle the valves and check that I have the right valve bases in the right location.
Give me electrics/electronics any day !!!

Irishrover said:

Yet another update.....
The car is still dropping onto the bump stops, front & rear, LH side after about half an hour despite the RH staying at Standard height.
I have done a bit of research and find that there are different valve poppets used in the solenoid valves. The airspring valves use the same type of poppet and the exhaust and diaphragm valves use a different type.
When I stripped the block, I removed all of the valve bases and stripped them down one at a time to replace the stem "O" ring. All of the valve bases are the same size (Except of course the Inlet valve which is smaller) and it is impossible to see which type of poppet is fitted when the valve base is assembled.
Yet again I will dismantle the valves and check that I have the right valve bases in the right location.
Give me electrics/electronics any day !!!

Click to expand...

Very important that all the valve assemblies go back in the right place John. I mark all mine up as I remove them and lay them out on a sheet of paper. If the valve block is clean and doesn't need a wash out, I do them one at a time. I have re-conned tested valve blocks in stock if you are stuck

Hi Keith....Stamped the block with the valve nos. before I stripped it down and also put a "Dymo" sticker on each valve solenoid. I realise now that that was unnecessary as the layout of the solenoid wiring is such that it determines which coil goes where. However, the valve bases are completely hidden when the coil is in place and in hindsight, the marking of the bases is far more important !!.
I merrily stripped all of the bases etc. at the same time in order to completely and thoroughly clean the block and run taps down the screw holes to remove Loctite residue.
Hopefully, the wrong base in the wrong location is the cause of the problem, if it is, I hope that this mistake will help others avoid falling into the same trap. My philosophy is that if you make a mistake, be completely upfront and tell the complete story....don't feel embarrased as a fix for the problem will save some other poor sod a load of heartache !!
Probably strip the valves down tomorrow....will advise outcome.

Thanks for the offer of the block, much appreciated Bud...watch this space !!!

I will post photo's of the poppets later.

Irishrover said:

Hi Keith....Stamped the block with the valve nos. before I stripped it down and also put a "Dymo" sticker on each valve solenoid. I realise now that that was unnecessary as the layout of the solenoid wiring is such that it determines which coil goes where. However, the valve bases are completely hidden when the coil is in place and in hindsight, the marking of the bases is far more important !!.
I merrily stripped all of the bases etc. at the same time in order to completely and thoroughly clean the block and run taps down the screw holes to remove Loctite residue.
Hopefully, the wrong base in the wrong location is the cause of the problem, if it is, I hope that this mistake will help others avoid falling into the same trap. My philosophy is that if you make a mistake, be completely upfront and tell the complete story....don't feel embarrased as a fix for the problem will save some other poor sod a load of heartache !!
Probably strip the valves down tomorrow....will advise outcome.

Thanks for the offer of the block, much appreciated Bud...watch this space !!!

I will post photo's of the poppets later.

Click to expand...

The four solenoids for the corner valves are all the same with a strong spring on them. The ones for the inlet and exhaust valves have a small spring in the end of them, as does the diaphragm solenoid one. That is because the inlet /exhaust and diaphragm valve are held open, so smaller spring. The other four are pulsed, larger spring. They need stronger spring to seal corners if they were held open against the stronger springs the coils would burn out.

Thanks for the input Wammers...appreciated.
I am used to stripping the block down now !! I find it easier to remove the cruise bellows bracket (2 self tappers) and the four bolts that secure the box to the inner wing**, disconnect the air pipes and wiring connectors and lift the complete box out.
As I posted earlier, I will try and post photo's of the poppets tomorrow.
Hopefully this topic will be of use to others who refurb. the valve block.

**When refitting, do not go overboard tightening these bolts as there is a rubber damper under each one with a light gauge metal tube inside (Same as the compressor mountings) and overtightening will cause noisy operation. I just "Nip" them up and put a dab of Low strength Loctite on the bolts. If by chance the mountings are knackered, the part no. is STC2767 and they cost around £3.50 each.

Looks like I have got a result

After stripping the valve block down again yesterday and swapping the solenoid valve bases around to where they should be, instead of fitting them at random which is what I did in the first place, the suspension had dropped 10mm on each corner this morning and is working perfectly so far.

I hope that this episode serves a useful purpose for whoever drops the same bollick as myself and no doubt someone "May" decide to do a search in the future and find it.

Many thanks to those who responded to the original post....your input was very much appreciated Guys :clap2::clap2::clap2:

This has been mentioned before by me, but it should be in a data base on here somewhere, we should not have to keep giving the same answers time and time again. Well done mate job sorted.