Oil Overfill

The garage changed my oil (yeah I know) and overfilled it by about 7mm on the dipstick.

Anyway, it's puffing smoke on idle and when I pump the throttle. It wasn't doing it before. I just fixed an air leak so could it be related to that or is it more likely that oil is being forced through the seals/rings?

I pulled the plugs and they were slightly carbonised. I don't think it's a weak spark, as the engine starts on the button, so I guess that suggests oil ingress, as does my new smoke problem. The exhaust is dripping sooty water, it doesn't smell of oil, I guess that might mean a rich mixture but it's tuned quite lean - took the screw all the way in until it started to cut out and then screwed it back until the revs came back up.

It hasn't had a long cruise with the new carb fitted yet, can't at the moment because the gearbox is dry. But that's a whole other problem, and I suppose if it is oil ingress I don't want to be taking any long runs before I drop the oil level.

Can I just loosen the sump plug, drain a quart off, and tighten it up or will that ruin the oil seal at the plug? I don't really want to give it an oil change after only 60 miles. :doh: But I'd rather do that than get a new drip from my nice dry sump plug.

I'd drain off the excess and see what happens.

Yeah makes sense. Hope it's just something and nothing.

Rogan said:

The garage changed my oil (yeah I know) and overfilled it by about 7mm on the dipstick.

Anyway, it's puffing smoke on idle and when I pump the throttle. It wasn't doing it before. I just fixed an air leak so could it be related to that or is it more likely that oil is being forced through the seals/rings?

I pulled the plugs and they were slightly carbonised. I don't think it's a weak spark, as the engine starts on the button, so I guess that suggests oil ingress, as does my new smoke problem. The exhaust is dripping sooty water, it doesn't smell of oil, I guess that might mean a rich mixture but it's tuned quite lean - took the screw all the way in until it started to cut out and then screwed it back until the revs came back up.

It hasn't had a long cruise with the new carb fitted yet, can't at the moment because the gearbox is dry. But that's a whole other problem, and I suppose if it is oil ingress I don't want to be taking any long runs before I drop the oil level.

Can I just loosen the sump plug, drain a quart off, and tighten it up or will that ruin the oil seal at the plug? I don't really want to give it an oil change after only 60 miles. :doh: But I'd rather do that than get a new drip from my nice dry sump plug.

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Sounds like you dont know what you are doing mucker, yes you can drain some oil off but it's messy and it wont damage the seal. Hope its on level ground when you checked it.

Best to shoot off to an mot station and get a probe up its bum, you seem to be into a few bits here. If you stand at the rear is it stinking of oil or is it burning your eyes. Odds on you are running miles too rich.

david451 said:

Sounds like you dont know what you are doing mucker, yes you can drain some oil off but it's messy and it wont damage the seal. Hope its on level ground when you checked it.

Best to shoot off to an mot station and get a probe up its bum, you seem to be into a few bits here. If you stand at the rear is it stinking of oil or is it burning your eyes. Odds on you are running miles too rich.

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I wouldn't say I knew what I was doing, but it's not much fun getting someone else to fix it for you. Don't try, don't learn.

That's what I wanted to know, I can tap a bit off without it damaging the seal. Level ground, yup. Messy, well I'll not do it in my tux then I suppose.

And yes, burning eyes. Well it was before I plugged the vacuum advance, now that I come to think of it it's not doing that now. Doesn't smell of burning oil either.

I had it in at the MOT place before, they had it for a week and told me the carb had the wrong jets. Turned out the vaccum advance port wasn't blocked off and it was sucking air. I guess they'll be pleased to have another shot.

Cheers.

Rogan said:

I wouldn't say I knew what I was doing, but it's not much fun getting someone else to fix it for you. Don't try, don't learn.

That's what I wanted to know, I can tap a bit off without it damaging the seal. Level ground, yup. Messy, well I'll not do it in my tux then I suppose.

And yes, burning eyes. Well it was before I plugged the vacuum advance, now that I come to think of it it's not doing that now. Doesn't smell of burning oil either.

I had it in at the MOT place before, they had it for a week and told me the carb had the wrong jets. Turned out the vaccum advance port wasn't blocked off and it was sucking air. I guess they'll be pleased to have another shot.

Cheers.

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Most carbs have fixed jets and probably what the mot guy meant by changing them. If it runs ok on fast running then odds on your jets are ok and its your idle mixture which is wrong, or float height, another thing worth checking.

Didnt mean to be sarcastic tho sorry about that, good to see you are trying.

No problems, I kinda thought you were indulging in the fine tradition of newbie baiting. I've ventured onto the internets before.

It was pinking under acceleration but like I say there was a bloody great hole in the side of the carb. Of course I didn't realise this until after I bought a replacement. Well now I have two working Zeniths I suppose...

I haven't checked the float hight on the new carb, I set the old carb to 32mm, but there was this hole see, and... um.

Anyway I finally got the mangled gearbox plug off so I can see how it's going above idle.

You think asking about draining a bit of oil off is silly, you should see the horrors I wreaked on the poor old gearbox drain plug. Three days it took me to get it off, and blood, lots of blood. :doh:

7mm overfill of engine oil won't cause any trouble at all. Ignore it.

Plugging the advance-retard pipe won't do a lot to help, and that is probably why it is pinking when you shove the GO pedal down.

The vacuum device on the distributor is miscalled the Vacuum ADVANCE doo-dah because what it actually does (if it is connected and it works!) is to RETARD the ignition instantly when you deck the throttle, thus preventing pinking. This happens because the partial vacuum at the carb becomes much less at lowish revs and lots of throttle, and a spring turns the breaker plate forwards to retard the spark timing. As the Revs pick up the vacuum increases (lower abs. pressure) and the device sucks the ignition plate back (against the spring) to its normal position which advances the timing to just less than pinking point for normal cruising along. If this is all set up right (just as LandRover originally arranged it) the engine will run very sweetly. Otherwise .....

Whenever you deck the throttle the timing MUST back off instantly or pinking WILL occur, and that can cause disastrous damage PDQ. Like burn a big hole in a piston. If they have disabled the thing AND had timed the engine to prevent pinking, you will always be running RETARDED and that causes OVERHEATING and very poor power and economy. Better sort it out the way Mr LandRover did it in the first place.

CharlesY

Wow, that's some informative post right there!

My landy's a 24V LtWt so the dizzy has an automatic advance and thus the vacuum advance port is supposed to be blocked off.

Nonetheless, now I know what vacuum advance is. Thanks.

The garage said the timing was well advanced and retarded it loads when they were trying to tune it, so it's probably way off now that it isn't sucking extra air.

They just played with it for a week and said I could have it back so I could change the jets/carb/sod about with it.

Good to know the oil level isn't a problem. I'll take it back in and have someone tune it up properly. Maybe I'll get more than 12MPG out of it now. :biggrin1: TBH I haven't been heavy footing it because of the pinking, god only knows what the POs have done though. The sump was bone dry when I bought it.

Rogan said:

Wow, that's some informative post right there!

My landy's a 24V LtWt so the dizzy has an automatic advance and thus the vacuum advance port is supposed to be blocked off.

Nonetheless, now I know what vacuum advance is. Thanks.

The garage said the timing was well advanced and retarded it loads when they were trying to tune it, so it's probably way off now that it isn't sucking extra air.

They just played with it for a week and said I could have it back so I could change the jets/carb/sod about with it.

Good to know the oil level isn't a problem. I'll take it back in and have someone tune it up properly. Maybe I'll get more than 12MPG out of it now. :biggrin1: TBH I haven't been heavy footing it because of the pinking, god only knows what the POs have done though. The sump was bone dry when I bought it.

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Pity you didnt have a timing light, preferably with a vernier on it, this would allow you to check the advance curve, it's simple at a given revs it should be this or that, if the dizzy is siezed or fooked it will also show it up, but take the cap off and check it's returning to the stops, that the springs are not shot and that it's moving by twisting it, a little bit of oil on it helps aswel. Also make sure the shaft aint worn, or the rotor slack causing timing spatter. Sometimes the drive wears and the distributor shaft dances all over the place.

The tuners should have picked all that up tho but worth a look.

david451 said:

Pity you didnt have a timing light, preferably with a vernier on it, this would allow you to check the advance curve, it's simple at a given revs it should be this or that, if the dizzy is siezed or fooked it will also show it up, but take the cap off and check it's returning to the stops, that the springs are not shot and that it's moving by twisting it, a little bit of oil on it helps aswel. Also make sure the shaft aint worn, or the rotor slack causing timing spatter. Sometimes the drive wears and the distributor shaft dances all over the place.

The tuners should have picked all that up tho but worth a look.

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Yeah I've been avoiding doing the timing myself, little baby steps and all that. And I thought it would be cheaper to get the garage to tune it than buy a light etc. I'm yet to lay eyes on the invoice from the garage, so I could be mistaken.


I have perused the dizzy service part of the manual a few times now, but I have huge ham fists and don't really trust myself not to knacker it.

I'm not really sure what the garage did, other than do a load of stuff I asked them not to, and none of the stuff I did. I do know they retarded the timing though.

TBH I probably do need to man up and do the dizzy service myself. It sounds quite simple when you describe it in plain English.

Rogan said:

Yeah I've been avoiding doing the timing myself, little baby steps and all that. And I thought it would be cheaper to get the garage to tune it than buy a light etc. I'm yet to lay eyes on the invoice from the garage, so I could be mistaken.


I have perused the dizzy service part of the manual a few times now, but I have huge ham fists and don't really trust myself not to knacker it.

I'm not really sure what the garage did, other than do a load of stuff I asked them not to, and none of the stuff I did. I do know they retarded the timing though.

TBH I probably do need to man up and do the dizzy service myself. It sounds quite simple when you describe it in plain English.

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Fokal in it, a shaft which is turned by the engine somewhere, vauxhall had problems in this department cause it was driven off the oil pump and it used to fook up. A base plate with the points and condensor on it and a couple of springs that return it and allow it to advance. Just have to make sure all is working. Dont even have to take it out, but best to, just line up the rotor pointing at a point, anywhere, and slip it out. The shaft has a skewed gear so when fitting it back in you have to line it up just off where your mark is and as it goes in it turns.

It's not uncommon for the drive on the end of the dizzy to wear, some are held on with a roll pin and it wears letting the drive float about, but check before you pull it out just in case its worn at the other end inside the engine.

david451 said:

Pity you didnt have a timing light, preferably with a vernier on it, this would allow you to check the advance curve, it's simple at a given revs it should be this or that, if the dizzy is siezed or fooked it will also show it up, but take the cap off and check it's returning to the stops, that the springs are not shot and that it's moving by twisting it, a little bit of oil on it helps aswel. Also make sure the shaft aint worn, or the rotor slack causing timing spatter. Sometimes the drive wears and the distributor shaft dances all over the place.

The tuners should have picked all that up tho but worth a look.

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Absolutely ...

UNDER the breaker plate are a couple of bob-weights which advance the timing NO MATTER WHAT as the engine speed rises. David451 is right - given good old fashioned kit (I have it all here!) a rev-counter in a box, cam-dwell meter and a Xenon strobe, you can find out the advance at every 500 rpm and draw a graph of it.

But that is only the AUTOMATIC advance and retard mechanism. VERY old cars didn't even have that - the driver had a lever on the stering wheel and diddled the timing as he drove along! The automatic advance was a step forward, but PINKING was still a big problem, so they added the VACUUM RETARD device.

Question is this - should your engine have one of these?

My guess is YES; because all modern petrol engines should, and you may want to look into that. The carb needs to be the right one for the setup, and should have a vacuum pipe nipple that leads to the venturi just where the throttle butterfly sits. Using another carb about the same or an "equivalent" may not be a good idea. The carb has to be just right for the designed setup for that engine.

CharlesY

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll give the dizzy a work over today when my hangover abates.

The car is totally standard, using a stock Zenith, original ignition etc. I don't know why it doesn't use the vacuum advance mechanism, but I'm 100% sure it is not part of the design. The only entry for the carb in the parts manual is #586605 "Plug suction hole in carburetter"



And it uses one of these suppressed mil dizzys.

Get rid of that distributor for a start!
It's a so-called waterpfoof sealed one from a FFR Landy (fitted for radio) and isn't any good for normal driving. But it is good for sitting on fast tickover powering a C-11 or C-13 Hi-Power radio set in the back.

Unless you MUST keep it original for collector's reasons, it would be better by far to use normal Landy bits. Keep the old bits safe on a shelf. You can look at them whenever you feel like it for the sake of nostalgia.

CharlesY

hehe.

Yeah I know a lot of guys swap them out, I assumed it was just because of parts availability and not anything to do with running efficiency.

There are lots of guides on how to do it and I guess it's pretty simple to revert from afterwards. It is currently very original.

What are the benefits of converting it to a standard 12V ignition, other than parts availability? Better MPG, smoother running, or something?

CharlesY said:

Absolutely ...

UNDER the breaker plate are a couple of bob-weights which advance the timing NO MATTER WHAT as the engine speed rises. David451 is right - given good old fashioned kit (I have it all here!) a rev-counter in a box, cam-dwell meter and a Xenon strobe, you can find out the advance at every 500 rpm and draw a graph of it.

But that is only the AUTOMATIC advance and retard mechanism. VERY old cars didn't even have that - the driver had a lever on the stering wheel and diddled the timing as he drove along! The automatic advance was a step forward, but PINKING was still a big problem, so they added the VACUUM RETARD device.

Question is this - should your engine have one of these?

My guess is YES; because all modern petrol engines should, and you may want to look into that. The carb needs to be the right one for the setup, and should have a vacuum pipe nipple that leads to the venturi just where the throttle butterfly sits. Using another carb about the same or an "equivalent" may not be a good idea. The carb has to be just right for the designed setup for that engine.

CharlesY

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Advance on the steering!! ffs charlie, my dad, charlie as it happens!! could probably tell you about them, and when he had to start the foker in the morning with the starter handle, my mates dad had a three wheeler and he had to kick start it from under the bonnet, what a spectical it was.

My first car was a 105e anglia dgm411c 1200 non-crossflow horrible green and drum brakes all around, being a daft boy then I can tell you a thing about brake fade until I fitted calipers and discs from a mk1 cortina.

Ah those were the days, when things could be repaired, not computers an replacement all the time.

david451 said:

Advance on the steering!! ffs charlie, my dad, charlie as it happens!! could probably tell you about them, and when he had to start the foker in the morning with the starter handle, my mates dad had a three wheeler and he had to kick start it from under the bonnet, what a spectical it was.

My first car was a 105e anglia dgm411c 1200 non-crossflow horrible green and drum brakes all around, being a daft boy then I can tell you a thing about brake fade until I fitted calipers and discs from a mk1 cortina.

Ah those were the days, when things could be repaired, not computers an replacement all the time.

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My second car was a 1954 Citroen Light 15. Fabulous car - front wheel drive.

It had a manual advance and retard knob on the dash not far from where the gear lever came through - the dashboard ....

Because I was so stupid and knew so little (like what's possible and what isn't) I fitted new piston rings to the engine in that car without taking off the sump, and without taking out the engine! Now THAT is a good trick!

Go on ... ask me how ... I dare you!

CharlesY

CharlesY said:

My second car was a 1954 Citroen Light 15. Fabulous car - front wheel drive.

It had a manual advance and retard knob on the dash not far from where the gear lever came through - the dashboard ....

Because I was so stupid and knew so little (like what's possible and what isn't) I fitted new piston rings to the engine in that car without taking off the sump, and without taking out the engine! Now THAT is a good trick!

Go on ... ask me how ... I dare you!

CharlesY

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Ok go on then.

CharlesY said:

My second car was a 1954 Citroen Light 15. Fabulous car - front wheel drive.

It had a manual advance and retard knob on the dash not far from where the gear lever came through - the dashboard ....

Because I was so stupid and knew so little (like what's possible and what isn't) I fitted new piston rings to the engine in that car without taking off the sump, and without taking out the engine! Now THAT is a good trick!

Go on ... ask me how ... I dare you!

CharlesY

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Cos it were an air cooled flat twin injun - like a motorbike?