Oh no, not another tyre question.

Sorry, it is a tyre question but I'm not looking to change from the factory fitted 195/80R15, so no "what the biggest tyre...".


Right, me Mich Synchrons are nearly at the end of their life. Started off as new all round. 35,000 miles later, front ones worn more as expected and started scrubbing out on left hand shoulder on both fronts due to round abouts, so I swapped them left <> right. Now the other side is starting to wear so its getting to that time.

So, new pair of wellies to replace dead pair. Fit new pair to back and bring part worn Synchs to the front. Standard Freebee procedure.

Now, heard on here that Mich Latitudes were gooduns, but some were having problems pairing them with Synchrons. So question 1 - Whats the feeling about Latitudes on the back with Synchrons on the front?


Meanwhile, I'm now a member of a 4x4 response organisation and thats gonna get busy when the weather gets rough. Last call out was in the snow in January so I have to consider that I might be doing a lot of miles in snow at some point (not in the immediate future I know but the tyres are worn now).

Plan A - get four steel hubs and fit a set of a good AT tyre. Swap out with normal road tyres when the weather gets bad. Good idea as tyres then match conditions. Bad idea as this is gonna cost.

Plan B - Select a 'better' all round tyre for all conditions. Question 2 - Any advice on a good AT tyre that performs well under normal road conditions?


What I might do is take the hit and replace all four at once. I'll keep one of the better Synchs as a spare on the car (as my current spare has a slow pucture) and the other in the shed, hubless.

Many thanks for your thoughts Chaps, and no, I ain't gonna burn it.

Dave

search Latitude's any good on all four's

burn it......

David,

I'd suggest that any solution to this question is going to result in many scheckles being spilled from the coffers; but if it were my money I would probably do the following (having first taken the matches away from those wearing 'special mittens')..

Fit two mid-range tyres to your existing wheels and put them on the back - say something similar to 'Matador' tyres which are manufactured by continental - to get you going for now. Then purchase another set of four, or even five, rims with tyres in due course before the winter really sets in - maybe from FleeBay or an offer during the warmer months from one of the ads in the back of LRO (or similar).

As for the type of tyre I, personally, had a great time in the snow using BGF Mud-Terrains.

But this is is easy for me to say as it's not my money....Spare change anyone!

There is a thread that is sticky, at my request, regarding the damage that can be done by mixing tyres, especially when fitting new ones to the front. This involved Latitudes and Synchrones. The interesting thing was that the OP reported that there was 4mm difference in the trye diameters. That is going to cause trouble which ever way you fit them.

Seems to me that the choice is either fit two tyres and risk 1200 quids worth of parts damage alone, or fit four tyres at 160 odd quid extra. Its a tough one!!

Meanwhile I have had a contact from this thread and am going to have a look at a set of Goodyear Wranglers MT/R 215/65R16 on alloy hubs this weekend. I've looked up these tyres and they are considered really great off road but are pretty naff on road. Will see what condition they are in and what is being asked in payment. Quite tempted by this as at least I'll have a set of spare hubs.

Therefore Plan A is not dead yet.

Having a look around for some 195/80R15 95T

ATSeuromaster - Latitude cross - £92.99 per welly
(Can't get any other quote as the sites buggered)

Kiwkfit - Pirelli Scorpion ST - £73.03 per welly online price

Other local places don't touch this size.

Not gone up as much as I feared, which is something.

Was going to wait longer but if this VAT rise is on the way might need to do it sooner.

The Chap said:

David,

I'd suggest that any solution to this question is going to result in many scheckles being spilled from the coffers; but if it were my money I would probably do the following (having first taken the matches away from those wearing 'special mittens')..

Fit two mid-range tyres to your existing wheels and put them on the back - say something similar to 'Matador' tyres which are manufactured by continental - to get you going for now. Then purchase another set of four, or even five, rims with tyres in due course before the winter really sets in - maybe from FleeBay or an offer during the warmer months from one of the ads in the back of LRO (or similar).

As for the type of tyre I, personally, had a great time in the snow using BGF Mud-Terrains.

But this is is easy for me to say as it's not my money....Spare change anyone!

Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm really considering going for four Latitudes straight on. Reasons are firstly, as per my previous post, messing about with the transmission ratios on the Freelander is easily expensive if you get it wrong and secondly the Synchrones have done 35.000 miles and they ain't done yet, I paid 350 quid for them and thats a good return on the money. Works out a penny a mile.

It would be interesting to learn the outcome; keep us posted old boy.

Personally I'd go with the fours spankers, keeping the best of the old 'uns as yer spare. Espesh as the likes of QuackFart do a decent online price for four, as they habitually do. I'd give the usual online chappies as trawl as well of course. Fingers and pulse and all that.

Go for plan B if you can, fitted a set of Grabber at2's on mine when I had it, nice and quiet on the road and plenty of grip when you need it.

'tratter twonk nige' . . . . . . . . .

Darmain said:

There is a thread that is sticky, at my request, regarding the damage that can be done by mixing tyres, especially when fitting new ones to the front. This involved Latitudes and Synchrones. The interesting thing was that the OP reported that there was 4mm difference in the trye diameters. That is going to cause trouble which ever way you fit them.

Seems to me that the choice is either fit two tyres and risk 1200 quids worth of parts damage alone, or fit four tyres at 160 odd quid extra. Its a tough one!!

Meanwhile I have had a contact from this thread and am going to have a look at a set of Goodyear Wranglers MT/R 215/65R16 on alloy hubs this weekend. I've looked up these tyres and they are considered really great off road but are pretty naff on road. Will see what condition they are in and what is being asked in payment. Quite tempted by this as at least I'll have a set of spare hubs.

Therefore Plan A is not dead yet.

Having a look around for some 195/80R15 95T

ATSeuromaster - Latitude cross - £92.99 per welly
(Can't get any other quote as the sites buggered)

Kiwkfit - Pirelli Scorpion ST - £73.03 per welly online price

Other local places don't touch this size.

Not gone up as much as I feared, which is something.

Was going to wait longer but if this VAT rise is on the way might need to do it sooner.

Click to expand...

I was interested to read your post above regarding possible damage caused when fitting new tyres to the front? To cut a long story short, I had to replace two of the four original Mich Synchromes with two Primacy HP's, (not my choice but the garage, I just asked for two replacement tyres)? They were originally fitted to the front, but I wasn't happy as I got a strange feel/booming type noise, similar to when a window is open at speed, above 30mph. Because of the language problem, I didn't initally return to the garage, but went to a friend who is a mechanic and we changed them around to the rear. It is much better but still doesn't sound right? If I understand correctly, you are saying that this may be down to slightly different sizing of the diameter of the tyres? The tyres are 225/55 R17 on alloy rims. Can you answer the following questions?

1. What damage can occur?
2. As the new tyres are now on the rear, is this ok?
3. I was planning to replace the other two tyres in the next 6 months, should I do it now instead?
4. I am assuming that I have to replace with Primacy HP's?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Answers:

1 This will take some explaining so bear with me here.

With the new tyres on the front and old on the back then the front tyres are larger in diameter compared to the back, therefore the front driveshaft speed is slower compared to the back (The front tyres can cover more ground per revolution, Pi x D and all that). So the faster rear axle speed tries to drive the central propshaft at a speed that is higher than the IRD (transfer box) is trying to drive the propshaft at (back driving). Normally it is the otherway round and in both the intended mode of operation and this abnormal mode of operation the result is the same, the VCU starts to lock up. This is the classic case of what is know as transmission windup and is exactly the same as driving say a Defender with the centre diff lock engaged but on solid ground. The gearface pressure in the IRD and the rear diff increases until something gives. That something might be a tyre slipping, or the VCU jumping (That is most likely the booming you heard), but ultimately either the IRD or the rear diff or both will shed teeth. If that happens its a replacement of the defective unit, normally at stupid cost, and all because the tyres are different sizes.

Now put the new tyres on the back is better because the rear axle speed is slower than the front. and this is a result of the transmission being setup to deliberately drive the rear axle at a slightly slower speed. This is a subject in itself as to why this was done. These are some of the theories as they stand, or fall:

* This setup means the car is biased to front wheel drive most of the time to improve the handling.
* The front axle is always going to spinning slightly faster as there is higher load on the front tyres, causing them to bulge more at the ground contact point.
* Landrover got it wrong.

What is know is Landrover did get it wrong on the early mark 1 Freelanders, the ratio delivery power to the back axle was too far out of balance, this was corrected on the mark 2s onwards but I don't believe Landrover ever admitted there was a problem.

Anyhow, back to subject. So with your larger tyres on the back the VCU will allow for a slight difference in speed but it couldd mean that the car slips in and out of 4WD as you drive along. This might be what you are feeling now.

2. Landrover recommend that new tyres are always fitted to the back on the Freelander 1. Your car is now correct to their design.

3. I recommend that you always take steps to ensure the transmission ratios are balanced. I therefore recommend you move your current tyres to the front (as they have begun to wear now) immediately followed by fit the brand new tyres to the back.

4. I advise you fit the same tyre all round to ensure that the tyre losses are matched. It doesn't matter if they are 195/60R15 or 225/55 R17 or anything in between, just keep them matched.

Look at it this way, a couple of hundred Euros (in your case) for a couple of new tyres, compared to a couple of thousand for a tranmission replacement. Easy sums really.

Finally, keep your tyre pressures the same all round, again to keep them balanced.

Good luck,

Dave

Right, took the plunge. Thanks to a fellow Landyzone member (Thanks mate ) I now have a set of Goodyear Wranglers MT/R 215/65R16 on alloy hubs. Pleased with that. They are used and a little chewed but theres plenty of life left in them plus I now have a set of 16" alloys to play with.

Now I've got to sort out the road tyres.....

Result

Fitted said tyres tonight. No problems with them. Evaluated the wear and fitted the most tread to the back. It was easy to see which ones had been on the front. The fifth tyre is the interesting one. They have obviously been used on rock, or something adbrasive like that and number 5 is chomped well and truely. Might run it on the road for a few miles to smooth it off a bit.

Took it for a drive. Steerings a little heavier, which is to be expected, theres 20mm more tyre. Feels a lot more solid, I guess because of the lower profile. General performance seems unaffected. However, road noise is horrendious. I guess its not a road tyre is it!

As they say, every silver lining has a cloud. When the front on-side wheel came off I discovered the top gattor of the drop link I fitted about three weeks ago has complete split open on the crease. Receipt at the ready for the morning!!

Ah yes, an affliction I know all too well - solve one problem and three appear to take its place.

Still; at least a refund/exchange is a possibility..

Well, gave them a call this morning. They were not too happy about me wanting a replacement but couldn't really say 'no'. Then I tried it on a bit. Could I have the new one first, then bring the old one in the next day after I've swapped it. The answer was 'No'. So how am I supposed to take the old one off and drive to you then? Your problem! Actually, its annoying but I still have the failed link that this one replaced so tonight I swapped it out. Now I can see the problem, the top gatter is perished but the bottom one is fine. Just hope it ain't a batch problem. I'm a dab hand at changing drop links now.

Well, to finish off this thread.

Firstly the drop link has been replaced so hopefully that is the end of that.

And finally, on the tyre front, Hippo now sports four Michelin Latitude Cross - 195/80R15 96T. Some good news to this is that they were 25% off and I've got a £40 fuel voucher. So all together that gives me an actual price of just short of 90 quid a boot. The best Synchrone was kept as a spare and the rest scrapped. The remaining Snycnrone has 3mm of tread, the Latitudes have 9mm. Should do me well.

The Goodyears are stacked in the garage ready for when it is next time for me to have some fun.