No road tax for handbuilt 90

Found a new and improved mechanic that's mad for Landy's the other day.

His modified 90 was parked outside the garage and he popped over to talk me round it. Interestingly, he'd taken a 1974 Range Rover chassis, reduced it's length, and now the entire vehicle (which looks as good as any other modded off-road 90 I've seen) is now completely road tax exempt!

Liking that, and would consider the same for my 110, further down the line. I wonder how much the chassis and operation would cost :scratching_chin:Thinking around the £1,000 mark, doing most of the work yourself. But then after 4 years you'd have got your money back.

i thought they had to be 1972 or earlier for exemption?,and if he declares the chassis mod chances are he will lose exemption and end up on a q plate from what iv'e read on here.

bigsi13 said:

i thought they had to be 1972 or earlier for exemption?,and if he declares the chassis mod chances are he will lose exemption and end up on a q plate from what iv'e read on here.

Click to expand...

Actually, it might have been 1972. My memory for important things is awful.

Also, after reading this I'm baffled as to how he achieved it, unless he build it pre-1998: http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/vosalaw.htm

i'm looking at doing a hybrid soon on a 200tdi disco as my big brother has given me his old disco and i have everything except a bulkhead and windscreen ,he's always wanted a defender but will never afford one so while he's away on service i'm going to try and build it up but will still have to q plate it as i'm modifying the chassis to suit defender body and gearbox.

To get tax exempt status the vehicle must have been built before Dec 31st 1972.

This can mean that some vehicles registered in 1973 could qualify if you can prove they came off the production line in 72.

The only legal way to get a coil sprung 90/defender tax exempt is to use a pre 73 Range Rover chassis, these are getting more and more collectable to rising in cost all the time.

The rebuild/radically modified rules are open to interpretation with Landrovers as they were written assuming monocoque construction, whereas LR are chassis and body, so in theory if u utilise the chassis, axles, engine transmission from a 72 rangy then it doesn't matter what body you have one it. I have a friend with a totally legal tax exempt Discovery! All above board and DVLA/VOSA inspected.

Sorry Greenlove, but once you shorten the wheelbase of a chassis and use it on a vehicle, that vehicle can only be issued with a Q plate. There is no way that a 90 built using a cut down Range rover chassis can legally retain its age related plate.

bigsi13 said:

i'm looking at doing a hybrid soon on a 200tdi disco as my big brother has given me his old disco and i have everything except a bulkhead and windscreen ,he's always wanted a defender but will never afford one so while he's away on service i'm going to try and build it up but will still have to q plate it as i'm modifying the chassis to suit defender body and gearbox.

Click to expand...

a lot easier to get a blitz sahara

crazymac said:

To get tax exempt status the vehicle must have been built before Dec 31st 1972.

This can mean that some vehicles registered in 1973 could qualify if you can prove they came off the production line in 72.

The only legal way to get a coil sprung 90/defender tax exempt is to use a pre 73 Range Rover chassis, these are getting more and more collectable to rising in cost all the time.

The rebuild/radically modified rules are open to interpretation with Landrovers as they were written assuming monocoque construction, whereas LR are chassis and body, so in theory if u utilise the chassis, axles, engine transmission from a 72 rangy then it doesn't matter what body you have one it. I have a friend with a totally legal tax exempt Discovery! All above board and DVLA/VOSA inspected.

Click to expand...

The rules are NOT open to interpretation, they are very clear. Unless your vehicle has the required number of points for using the correct engine, suspension etc, then it has to be issued with a Q plate. If you cut a chassis to alter it's wheelbase, then this is classed as a radical alteration, and again a Q plate has to be issued. For example a vehicle made from a 1972 Range Rover chassis, suspension and axles etc but with a Discovery body and engine, could keep the Range Rover ID and reg. However if you were to cut down the same Range Rover chassis and fit a 90 body to it, even if you used all the original parts from the Range Rover, it would need a Q plate. Another common trick people try to get away with is to fit a tax exempt series body onto a Defender chassis, and use the Series ID and reg no.. Even if you used the engine and gearbox from the series as well as the body, you could never register it as a series because the chassis is so different it would be classed as a radically altered vehicle, and once again, only suitable for a Q plate.

The Mad Hat Man said:

a lot easier to get a blitz sahara

Click to expand...

not when yer flat broke and want a defender to load the kids into ,and i got most of the bits already.

martin1512 said:

The rules are NOT open to interpretation, they are very clear. Unless your vehicle has the required number of points for using the correct engine, suspension etc, then it has to be issued with a Q plate. If you cut a chassis to alter it's wheelbase, then this is classed as a radical alteration, and again a Q plate has to be issued. For example a vehicle made from a 1972 Range Rover chassis, suspension and axles etc but with a Discovery body and engine, could keep the Range Rover ID and reg. However if you were to cut down the same Range Rover chassis and fit a 90 body to it, even if you used all the original parts from the Range Rover, it would need a Q plate. Another common trick people try to get away with is to fit a tax exempt series body onto a Defender chassis, and use the Series ID and reg no.. Even if you used the engine and gearbox from the series as well as the body, you could never register it as a series because the chassis is so different it would be classed as a radically altered vehicle, and once again, only suitable for a Q plate.

Click to expand...

You are correct in everything there, where I reckon there is a bit of "open to interpretation" is when you read the regs it is clear they are talking monocoque as they refer to "body" rather than Chassis most of the time, but as you say, leave the chassis alone, no worries, shorten it, Q plate or at the very least an enhanced IVA.

The one refered to by the original poster can only be legal if he did it before all the regs were tightened up.

What happens if you rebuild a Series onto a galv chassis that was rotten. Replace the engine etc. I assume as you've not modified the chassis - just repleced it for a new one the Q plate stays in the DVLA office for another vehicle?

familymad said:

What happens if you rebuild a Series onto a galv chassis that was rotten. Replace the engine etc. I assume as you've not modified the chassis - just repleced it for a new one the Q plate stays in the DVLA office for another vehicle?

Click to expand...

As long as the chassis is brand new, and identical to to the original, apart from the galvanising, and you keep at least 2 of the original major components, then you can keep the original ID. If you change the chassis and have less than 2 of the original major components, or use a 2nd hand chassis, then it will need either an IVA or SVA, and will be issued with a Q plate

As I recall, from a few years back the point system was along these lines;

The original vehicle has something like 10 points. I think around 7 or 8 have to be retained before a "q" is issued.

Suprisingly there are no points awarded to body panels(or possibly one), so it can look how ever you want. I think there was a couple of point for suspension, one for each axle, one for transmission, one for engine, and I think about 4 for the chassis, etc.

Obviously, if you were to change say a series onto coils you would loose points for at least chassis and suspension so therefore goes to a Q.

Not sure I got the amounts of points correct in any of the above but I hope you got the idea.

18 stoner said:

As I recall, from a few years back the point system was along these lines

Click to expand...

Scoring components

The following values will be allocated to the major components used:

• chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
• suspension = 2 points
• axles = 2 points
• transmission = 2 points
• steering assembly = 2 points
• engine = 1 point

Where there is evidence that two vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie 'cut and shut') a 'Q' mark will be allocated, IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA will be required.

Taken from [ARCHIVED CONTENT] Registering a radically altered vehicle : Directgov - Motoring

crazymac said:

Scoring components


The following values will be allocated to the major components used:

• chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
• suspension = 2 points
• axles = 2 points
• transmission = 2 points
• steering assembly = 2 points
• engine = 1 point

Where there is evidence that two vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie 'cut and shut') a 'Q' mark will be allocated, IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA will be required.

Taken from [ARCHIVED CONTENT] Registering a radically altered vehicle : Directgov - Motoring

Click to expand...

Thats a tad better than my jumbled version! Knew it was along those lines, just Ive slept a lot since I had dealings!

I dont understand this.
If you have a log book for a 1972 series landrover and you build a hybrid of whatever parts, take it for an Mot and it passes, insure it as a modified vehicle then apply for a tax exempt tax disc for a 1972 Landy then who knows what it is? Its insured as a modified vehicle so job done.
Sod the q plate bit if you have a knackered 72 Landy with log book.
This worked for me for years when I ran my Bowler Racer on the road. I know several buggies running around exactly the same.
I now have a Q plated Defender built from bits. Costs more to insure so Q plate at your peril.

Qplater said:

I dont understand this.
If you have a log book for a 1972 series landrover and you build a hybrid of whatever parts, take it for an Mot and it passes, insure it as a modified vehicle then apply for a tax exempt tax disc for a 1972 Landy then who knows what it is? Its insured as a modified vehicle so job done.
Sod the q plate bit if you have a knackered 72 Landy with log book.
This worked for me for years when I ran my Bowler Racer on the road. I know several buggies running around exactly the same.
I now have a Q plated Defender built from bits. Costs more to insure so Q plate at your peril.

Click to expand...

The DVLA call it "historic value" for a reason. If it doesnt resemble within reason, what its supposed to be, it shouldnt qualify. In their eyes anyhow.

There are many hundreds of "historics" around the country that are on none relevant formats, but as its mainly a DVLA issue (avoiding the road tax) and they will not ever get chance to see or inspect the vehicle, 99% of these will get away with it.

I do think, that really, you know its not correct as you know how to get around it, but, the real tester is if you get pulled over by VOSA, and are inspected by one of the more clued up guys they have(they do vary....a lot!) and you may find the answer you are asking for..............

They will cease your hybrid.

My vehicle and a pals were inspected by the police a few years ago as they thought the parts may have been procured from stolen vehicles. This was part of a case where somebody went down for ringing vehicles.
We both got them back and were told they really should be Q plated. They are still not and nothing further happened.
If its MOTed, insured, taxed and the police are happy the worst that can happen is VOSPA do a spot check (never seen this happen) and insist you Q plate it. Since you havent technically broken a law who will inforce it?

Qplater said:

My vehicle and a pals were inspected by the police a few years ago as they thought the parts may have been procured from stolen vehicles. This was part of a case where somebody went down for ringing vehicles.
We both got them back and were told they really should be Q plated. They are still not and nothing further happened.
If its MOTed, insured, taxed and the police are happy the worst that can happen is VOSPA do a spot check (never seen this happen) and insist you Q plate it. Since you havent technically broken a law who will inforce it?

Click to expand...

Sorry, but that is utter bollocks. If VOSA pull you and inspect the vehicle, you may well find yourself in a world of ****. They will most likely seize your vehicle, dismantle it and prosecute over the myriad Construction and Use regs you have broken. They are then likely inform the DVLA who will hammer you for tax evasion, and not only that, but they will almost certainly make a back claim for all the tax you should have paid since you first registered the vehicle. The other thing is, VOSA do not need proof of wrongdoing to **** on you, the mere suspicion of it is enough for them to seize your vehicle and start dismantling it. Don't rely on the fact that the police haven't prosecuted you for anything. The police often have a poor understanding of the law in this area. VOSA however knowthe law inside out, and one they get their claws on you, they don't let go without without first making you poor and miserable. I am telling you this just as simple advice, what you do with it is up to you, but I have had 2 friends who have been through this, they both lost the vehicles that cost them £1000's to build, and both ended up with several £1000's of pounds in fines, court costs and back tax, as well as a criminal record.

Qplater said:

My vehicle and a pals were inspected by the police a few years ago as they thought the parts may have been procured from stolen vehicles. This was part of a case where somebody went down for ringing vehicles.
We both got them back and were told they really should be Q plated. They are still not and nothing further happened.
If its MOTed, insured, taxed and the police are happy the worst that can happen is VOSPA do a spot check (never seen this happen) and insist you Q plate it. Since you havent technically broken a law who will inforce it?

Click to expand...

Firstly utter bollocks. it's illegal to attempt not to pay road tax on a vehicle which is not legally tax exempt.

secondly don't take ya vehicle to North Wales. Plod ther love "Mulitagency vehicle inspections" and operate road side inspections with Police, VOSA, DVLA, Benefits Agency. Environment Agency & HMRC. vosa & dvla are there to check legallity of vehicle C&U Regs etc. HMRC for dipping fuel. Benefits Agency to check that you'r not claiming benefits whilst driving a van full of building tools etc. and E.A to make sure your licenced to carry any waste that you have on the vehicle.

They recently had one outside Bangor Hospital and fined all the midwives, community nurses etc, £60 for not having "No Smoking signs inside their private cars. On the grounds that they were using them for work (visiting patients) and therefore they were works vehicles..