Just replaced my 97 P38 2.5 DSE with an identical low milage unit including all loom and ECU still atatched and coded to the injecion pump. Engine runs like a charm, cleared driveway of tools etc while engine running on tick over, once engine warm held it at 2000 rpm for a minute to listen for any abnormal beats or wobbles etc, gave her a quick blast up to 3000 rpm before jumping in for test drive of new engine..... only I cant get it to engage in any gears, no drive whatsoever. I lost a litre or two of ATF when I removed the old engine, swapped the torque convertor over and installed new engine without a hitch. Any suggestions welcome,because its got me stumped. Could the cooler rad being elevatted to below the slam panel be causing an air lock? Not sure where it is meant to be fitted originally, but this is clearly mounted on home made brackets so guessing it could have been raised? Is there a gearbox ECU that will need syncing to the new engine ECU? Oh well, yer bound to get snags!
no drive after engine swap
- Thread starter Baiman
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jamesmartin
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did you fit torque convertor fully in to box before fitting engine
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Is the fuse in position 11 I think?
jamesmartin
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youve likely broken the pump drive,you never bolt he torque convertor to the engine t has to be fitted to the box
Damn. Wasn't aware of that :/ Can it be repaired and if not what do I need to replace?
jamesmartin
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pull engine or box out, look at pump drive lugs and tc drive slots, if lugs are broken you need to replace the pump gears ,this can be done if box is stood bell housing up, and bell housing and pump removed,theres a bit more to it but if you get that far i could guide you then
jamesmartin
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no theres an access hole, t/c isnt bolted to flex plate till box and engine are fully bolted together
Be aware that the TC only slides onto the gearbox input shafts & isn't fixed in position on them.
It WILL slide off them & fall if not held in position & as you know it's very heavy. I used a T shaped piece of steel through the round hole in the bottom of the bellhousing with the tongue long enough to sit on the front of the doughnut shaped bit of the TC & holes drilled in the crosspiece of the T to suit the small bolts that hold the round cover over the round hole. The manual link below shows a 'retaining strap'
Umpteen other ways of doing it but you need it to be held on as well when refitting the box to stop it moving out of position.
If you try & refit the TC as shown in the manual with the box level it's a total b!"£$%D as I discovered the first time I did one.. If you stand it on end as jamesmartin says - I used an engine crane this time - then it's a piece of cake.
This worth a read: http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Manuals/Workshop-Manual-P38-Range-Rover.pdf page 655 on. See page 647 for accessing the flex to TC bolts, rotate the engine to access the 4.
And this: http://bmwe32.masscom.net/moswald/zf4hp22_rebuild/zf4hp22_rebuild.html Try & avoid pulling the input shaft (shaft & 'A'-clutch basket in the photos) off with the bellhousing as refitting it can be fun getting it back on as it has to line up with the steel & lined plates in the clutch pack & be correctly seated to depth to be sure it's through all of them. I did this earlier this year whilst sorting various leaks on my Classic's ZF4HP22 to replace the seals on the input shaft & took the opportunity to inspect the plates for wear. Push on the shaft as you pull the housing slowly away & it should stay in position - an assistant may be of help.
ETA 8/10 For some reason the above bmw link has decided not to work. Have a look at this instead: http://www.cowdery.org.uk/zf.php Note that the rear end is different on the LR.
Note the position & orientation of bearing & washers between pump & clutch basket. 210, 211,212 in the jpat link. Use a bit of grease to hold them in place.
Note that the TC must be fitted to the gearbox AND seated to the correct depth to avoid the problem you've had as the cutouts on the rear of the TC must engage with & drive the box pump.Measured from a straightedge laid across the bellhousing mouth down to the front of any of the 4 threaded lugs on the front of the TC. Measurement can be found here in the 'depth table': https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/automatic-gearboxes/zf4hp22eh.html
Once fitted to the box clamp in position.
I used these for parts for mine: https://jpat.co.uk/zf.html# exploded view here, note the rear of the box in the pics is different on the RR due to the transfer box: https://jpat.co.uk/uploads/1/0/3/5/103549764/89__zf_1_4hp22-24.pdf (Put page 1 & page 2 next to each other)
ETA If you remove the engine then you'll be doing it with the box level & you definitely need a couple of handles to manipulate the TC. Couple of lengths of threaded rod same thread as the flex to tc bolts. It will go back on, but clear the area of people of a delicate & easily offended nature!
It WILL slide off them & fall if not held in position & as you know it's very heavy. I used a T shaped piece of steel through the round hole in the bottom of the bellhousing with the tongue long enough to sit on the front of the doughnut shaped bit of the TC & holes drilled in the crosspiece of the T to suit the small bolts that hold the round cover over the round hole. The manual link below shows a 'retaining strap'
Umpteen other ways of doing it but you need it to be held on as well when refitting the box to stop it moving out of position.
If you try & refit the TC as shown in the manual with the box level it's a total b!"£$%D as I discovered the first time I did one.. If you stand it on end as jamesmartin says - I used an engine crane this time - then it's a piece of cake.
This worth a read: http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Manuals/Workshop-Manual-P38-Range-Rover.pdf page 655 on. See page 647 for accessing the flex to TC bolts, rotate the engine to access the 4.
And this: http://bmwe32.masscom.net/moswald/zf4hp22_rebuild/zf4hp22_rebuild.html Try & avoid pulling the input shaft (shaft & 'A'-clutch basket in the photos) off with the bellhousing as refitting it can be fun getting it back on as it has to line up with the steel & lined plates in the clutch pack & be correctly seated to depth to be sure it's through all of them. I did this earlier this year whilst sorting various leaks on my Classic's ZF4HP22 to replace the seals on the input shaft & took the opportunity to inspect the plates for wear. Push on the shaft as you pull the housing slowly away & it should stay in position - an assistant may be of help.
ETA 8/10 For some reason the above bmw link has decided not to work. Have a look at this instead: http://www.cowdery.org.uk/zf.php Note that the rear end is different on the LR.
Note the position & orientation of bearing & washers between pump & clutch basket. 210, 211,212 in the jpat link. Use a bit of grease to hold them in place.
Note that the TC must be fitted to the gearbox AND seated to the correct depth to avoid the problem you've had as the cutouts on the rear of the TC must engage with & drive the box pump.Measured from a straightedge laid across the bellhousing mouth down to the front of any of the 4 threaded lugs on the front of the TC. Measurement can be found here in the 'depth table': https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/automatic-gearboxes/zf4hp22eh.html
Once fitted to the box clamp in position.
I used these for parts for mine: https://jpat.co.uk/zf.html# exploded view here, note the rear of the box in the pics is different on the RR due to the transfer box: https://jpat.co.uk/uploads/1/0/3/5/103549764/89__zf_1_4hp22-24.pdf (Put page 1 & page 2 next to each other)
ETA If you remove the engine then you'll be doing it with the box level & you definitely need a couple of handles to manipulate the TC. Couple of lengths of threaded rod same thread as the flex to tc bolts. It will go back on, but clear the area of people of a delicate & easily offended nature!
Last edited:
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Thank f*CK I have the manual box.
brianp38dse
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- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Same here ,but we just have to cope with the roll pins every now and again
Only once since I banged a rivet stub up the centre!
Thanks again for the offer of guidance
I got the engine and box out, left transfer box in place. Ive split the box off the engine... I cant see any lugs inside the pump recess, not obviously at least, should there be two lugs the same size as the cutouts on the TC sleeve? There is what looks like a small shattered edge of metal below the splined shaft, but only the one, there is no evidence of anything else, not even fragments. The TC looks fine, but could I have damaged it internally by running the engine whilst testing afer fitting? Should I proceed by removing all the bolts in the bell housing to get at the pump?Ok, so the pump is off and the two luggs are sitting next to one another and are deffinately both sheared off... I'm guesing the 10mm bolts on the inside will expose the pump gears, attatched to which will be the broken lugg drive shell, which can hopefully all be replaced?
