new rings and scratches

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ric lopez

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Posts
11
Location
warwickshire
hi folks , should there be , vertical scratches, on left and right side, in all 4 cylinder bores, after fitting new rings, and only running up to temp twice, which takes forever, also black ring of oil, at top of bores, already, and valve side of head sooty and sticky, exhaust ports very oily, black, and getting in turbo running out of downpipe, thanks
 
Simple answer, no, to the vertical scratches. When you fitted the new rings did you hone the bores first? I bought a cheap honing kit Honing Kit from Machine Mart, which dressed the cylinders very nicely. Mind, my engine had been sat in water for three days and then outside for a year, so even had mould and 'lifeforms' inside it .. ;)

As for the oily mess I'd strip the turbo pipes off, the air inlet pipes and intercooler and clean everything up. Check the timing, the injectors and that any pipes/oilways aren't blocked. I'd also take the head off and check that the valves are seating properly and cleanly, maybe replace them and lap new ones in, also checking all the pushrods are straight and seated properly.
 
By just running it up to temperature I suspect you mean holding it at fast idle stationary or even worse idle stationary, if this is the case then the new rings wouldn't have had anywhere near enough cylinder pressure to get them to bite into the bores and bed in, now it's all glazed I suspect and is why it's all oily, if your not going to hone the bores and just put new rings on the only chance you have in getting them to bed in is start it and immediately drive it up long hill steadily in third or fourth gear at half throttle trying to keep quite a lot of steady load on, then they might bed in!

Equally it might all just pick up and destroy the lot!

The vertical scoring your describing sounds like it's already buggered unfortunately
 
Grem said:
By just running it up to temperature I suspect you mean holding it at fast idle stationary or even worse idle stationary, if this is the case then the new rings wouldn't have had anywhere near enough cylinder pressure to get them to bite into the bores and bed in, now it's all glazed I suspect and is why it's all oily, if your not going to hone the bores and just put new rings on the only chance you have in getting them to bed in is start it and immediately drive it up long hill steadily in third or fourth gear at half throttle trying to keep quite a lot of steady load on, then they might bed in!

Equally it might all just pick up and destroy the lot!

The vertical scoring your describing sounds like it's already buggered unfortunately
Click to expand...

Heh, I didn't think that he might have just stood there letting it warm up in neutral .. worst thing ever! When we raced sidecars we ran engines in from cold by a couple of steady laps, then a couple quick laps, then balls out for a couple of laps, job done! Nowadays just run them ... steadily at first, adding load every so often, but using different parts of the rev range without letting them run at the same revs for long at all, so running up through and down through the gears all the time.
 
hi, thanks for advice, yes I did hone the bores first, and ran at idle couple of times to temp, I cant take the car on the road, yet, and don't know anyone with a field, worst luck. the scratches aren't deep, they are , light on surface, on combustion sides, i put rings in at correct angles etc, no gaps on combustion sides, maybe ill have to do it all over again, didn't know about not to run engine after, on tickover, no one told me,about that bit, lesson learned.
 
heads off and going to engineer tomorrow for a checkup, mainly for peace of mind, as its doing my head in, if that's okay, then it must be the piston rings,cylinders etc, I just want it all sorted out, difficult when restricted by a budget
 
I doubt you have done any harm, leave it be and wait until its ready for the road and make the sucker work for a living, ie after a few miles rag the arse off it!
 
lynall said:
I doubt you have done any harm, leave it be and wait until its ready for the road and make the sucker work for a living, ie after a few miles rag the arse off it!
Click to expand...
thats what i thought, but my engineer said yesterday he would take the pistons out again and do another de glaze, and fit new rings. i kept the original pistons std size kolbenshmit, and fitted new kolbenshmit std size rings
 

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Grem said:
By just running it up to temperature I suspect you mean holding it at fast idle stationary or even worse idle stationary, if this is the case then the new rings wouldn't have had anywhere near enough cylinder pressure to get them to bite into the bores and bed in, now it's all glazed I suspect and is why it's all oily, if your not going to hone the bores and just put new rings on the only chance you have in getting them to bed in is start it and immediately drive it up long hill steadily in third or fourth gear at half throttle trying to keep quite a lot of steady load on, then they might bed in!

Equally it might all just pick up and destroy the lot!

The vertical scoring your describing sounds like it's already buggered unfortunately
Click to expand...
added some pics of cylinders today, thanks
 
ric lopez said:
thats what i thought, but my engineer said yesterday he would take the pistons out again and do another de glaze, and fit new rings. i kept the original pistons std size kolbenshmit, and fitted new kolbenshmit std size rings
Click to expand...
ric lopez said:
added some pics of cylinders today, thanks
Click to expand...
that needs doing again with a 45 degree cross hatch, the speed of rotation needs to be matched to up/down with the hone to achieve that and needs doing for longer the whole top glazed surface needs removing not just just scratched otherwise the rings just polish it off before the rings and cylinder wall have bedded in together
 
ric lopez said:
thats what i thought, but my engineer said yesterday he would take the pistons out again and do another de glaze, and fit new rings. i kept the original pistons std size kolbenshmit, and fitted new kolbenshmit std size rings
Click to expand...

Those cylinders don't look to have been honed very well. Sorry if you did it, but it has to be said or you won't learn. Get a honing tool, fit it in a drill and run the drill steadily whilst running the honing stones up and down the bore. You're looking to end up with cross-hatching over all the swept surface. Those pics look like all you've done is let the honing tool sit rotating in the bores and moved it up or down occasionally, that's probably why the rings scored it vertically, 'cos the surface isn't regular. It has to be moving up and down roughly in time with the rotational speed to give diamond patternings (cross-hatching) over the whole surface of the bore.

Having said that .. if you don't do what I said, it's likely that the engine will run, OK, but I'd always be worried about it's longevity and perhaps even it's ability to be setup to run properly.
 
Paul D said:
Those cylinders don't look to have been honed very well. Sorry if you did it, but it has to be said or you won't learn. Get a honing tool, fit it in a drill and run the drill steadily whilst running the honing stones up and down the bore. You're looking to end up with cross-hatching over all the swept surface. Those pics look like all you've done is let the honing tool sit rotating in the bores and moved it up or down occasionally, that's probably why the rings scored it vertically, 'cos the surface isn't regular. It has to be moving up and down roughly in time with the rotational speed to give diamond patternings (cross-hatching) over the whole surface of the bore.

Having said that .. if you don't do what I said, it's likely that the engine will run, OK, but I'd always be worried about it's longevity and perhaps even it's ability to be setup to run properly.
Click to expand...
ill go with that, all the advice helps, make good clear decisions, thanks
 
jamesmartin said:
that needs doing again with a 45 degree cross hatch, the speed of rotation needs to be matched to up/down with the hone to achieve that and needs doing for longer the whole top glazed surface needs removing not just just scratched otherwise the rings just polish it off before the rings and cylinder wall have bedded in together
Click to expand...
will do, or try anyway, thanks for the guidance, and clarity
 
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