new prob with my td :(

looks like my injector pump timing is out slightly, but its enough to be loosing power. its as if its just being strangled slightly when its under load! iv just put a new lift pump on it today to rule that out, plus had a compression test done which was fine, it aint using water or oil and its just had a full service and filter change.
anybody got any ideas on what way i need to turn the pump? advance or retard? or weather there is anything i can check out on the pump? iv not got any service guide on pump so reluctant to fiddle without knowing what im looking for.
any help much apprieciated cheers.

m35reo said:

looks like my injector pump timing is out slightly, but its enough to be loosing power. its as if its just being strangled slightly when its under load! iv just put a new lift pump on it today to rule that out, plus had a compression test done which was fine, it aint using water or oil and its just had a full service and filter change.
anybody got any ideas on what way i need to turn the pump? advance or retard? or weather there is anything i can check out on the pump? iv not got any service guide on pump so reluctant to fiddle without knowing what im looking for.
any help much apprieciated cheers.

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Hello,

There could really be one of a few things causing the problem you're describing, or even a combination of the following problems. I will assume you are aware that the 19J isn't by any means the most powerful or strongest of engines, and there does reach a point where the engine will simply fail to produce any extra power or acceleration over a few thousand revs regardless of how hard you have the pedal to the floor. It's almost like a continuous flat spot and the engine simply doesn't have the guts to work any harder! Non the less it's a problem that you've obviously noticed developing whilst driving it so I'll try and help you out as best I can.

First port of call would obviously be to check the air and fuel filters even if they have been replaced within the last month or so. Look for a brown coloured build up in the fuel filter or even for fuel filter element failure which is typical of britpart fuel filters. You might find that the internal paper element has transformed into a nice paper mush thus restricting your fuel flow. As for the air filter, any trace of oil in the paper element or oil in the pan that it all sits in is a big problem and would usually point towards a broken or deteriorating engine (i.e. worn rings, worn bores, worn valve seals or a blown head gasket etc.)

The next thing to do is to thoroughly check over the fuel plumbing for leaks or bad seals, particularly around the fuel filter housing. If there is any scope for air to be drawn into the fuel filter housing (which it will if it's given the slightest chance) you'll experience dramatic performance issues. Has the fuel filter canister been installed correctly with all of the appropriate rubber gaskets? There should be one large rubber 'o'ring around the bottom of the canister and a larger one around the top. It is also advised to use the provided tiny rubber 'o'rings to make a seal around the long bolt which holds the whole assembly in place (the bolt that goes through the top of the housing, through the fuel filter and into the bottom of the fuel filter housing). There may also be small perforations in the fuel pick-up pipe that sits in your fuel tank which isn't too tricky a job to replace.

Now, providing that you've gone over everything that needs checking before you start adjusting the timing there is one last thing that you can try. Bare in mind that you will need a friend to help you with this one. Locate the injection pump and feel down the right hand side of the pump - the side of the pump that faces the engine block and you will find a long bolt sticking out of the side of the pump. Get into a position so that you can actually see the bolt. There will be a lock nut at the end of the bolt (where it enters the pump). loosen this off whilst making sure that the long bolt does not rotate with it. Once you've loosened the lock nut, wind the long bolt about half a turn into the pump. This bolt controls the amount of fuel that the pump feeds to your injectors. After each half turn, re-tighten the lock nut and then fire the engine up. Have your friend deck the accelerator to the floor whilst you watch the exhaust. You need to keep adjusting the fuel adjustment bolt until there is a continuous whisp of faint black smoke leaving your exhaust at usual operating revs, so make sure your friend maintains a steady engine with relatively high revs (but not full). The more fuel you have, the more power you will have. TOO MUCH FUEL = LESS POWER however. If you over fuel these engines you'll just get loads of black smoke and you will have a too high a fuel to air ratio in the cylinders with an inefficient burn, which in turn reduces power and wastes fuel.

If none of the steps above make any difference, then attempt fuel pump timing adjustments. You can adjust the timing usually more than enough by simply rotating the injection pump away from the engine (or is it towards I always forget - some one will clarify). First scribe a line / paint a line across the pump and onto your timing cover so that you can adjust it back to where you have it now if you make too much of an adjustment. There are two or three bolts or nuts that you need to loosen off. All of which connect the pump to the timing chest. Slacken them all slightly and then stick a lump of wood or the handle of a hammer between the engine block and the pump. Gently prise the top edge of the pump away from the engine. Just 1mm will make a big difference. Tighten everything back up and then fire up the engine. Deck the peal to the floor until you hear 'diesel clatter' which is quite obvious once you hear it. Once you hear diesel clatter at full revs you need to back the pump back towards the engine by 1mm and tighten up. You now have next to optimum fuel injection timing.

I will clarify that, just trying to dig up an old thread now
-Pos

nice one fella some good stuff there. im sure its not worn engine problems as its a turner unit and has only done 25k, and its just been compression tested etc.
i wont fit britpart filters as iv had the element prob before, but iv checked all the fuel lines etc and all good.

so this bolt on side of pump is a mixture screw? il have a look at that today.

iv had the boost diaphragm mentioned to me as a possible prob, any one know about it?

cant remember which way to advance or retard it either think your right and i need to go away from the block.

cheers. j

m35reo said:

nice one fella some good stuff there. im sure its not worn engine problems as its a turner unit and has only done 25k, and its just been compression tested etc.
i wont fit britpart filters as iv had the element prob before, but iv checked all the fuel lines etc and all good.

so this bolt on side of pump is a mixture screw? il have a look at that today.

iv had the boost diaphragm mentioned to me as a possible prob, any one know about it?

cant remember which way to advance or retard it either think your right and i need to go away from the block.

cheers. j

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I did my reading last night and YES you do need to move the top of the pump away from the engine in order to advance the injection timing. The bolt on the side of the pump isn't so much a mixture adjuster, but more a maximum fuel adjustment. The further it's screwed into the pump, the more fuel your pump will feed to the engine. If you're over fueling it you'll see plumes of black smoke leaving your exhaust. You want to have it set so that there's a constant faint whispy trail of black smoke leaving the exhaust when you're driving it under normal conditions.

The boost diaphragm is also another possibility and it would definitely be worth checking that. Here's a picture guide running you through everything that you'll need to do from LR4X4's technical archive:

Replacing 2.5TD boost Diaphram - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum

I will also suggest that you have a go at fine tuning your injection pump timing. Most people will tell you that adjusting the position / angle of the pump is a cheat - WRONG! Each and every Land Rover will run slightly differently, some better than others and a lot of this boils down to standard timing issues. When your engine was assembled, an assembly line worker will have simply bolted the injection pump onto the timing case and then aligned all the timing pulleys to the factory standard. This is obviously a 'factory default' which purely and simply enables the engine to run, it does not however enable the engine to run at its optimum level. You don't know whether or not the assembly worker bolted the injection pump to the timing case a few mm towards the block or a few mm away from the block and why should he really care!? As long as it runs, it runs and that's what he is paid for. They simply didn't have the time to stand there and listen to every engine and make all the fine adjustments in order to get the timing smack on - which does make a big difference. This is where you are required. Adjusting it away from the engine 2mm at a time until you hear a loud clattering sound under full revs at normal operating temperature is the point when you need to back it off by another 1 - 2 mm. That way you have established perfect injection timing for your engine, and not just a factory standard that governed the thousands and thousands of 19J engines that Land Rover produced - each every so slightly different.

-Pos

your a bloody star matey going out to have a fiddle now its stopped raining, il report back later.
cheers. j

m35reo said:

your a bloody star matey going out to have a fiddle now its stopped raining, il report back later.
cheers. j

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No problem. I've just had problems with my N/A this morning. A perished fuel line which was drawing air in and causing the engine to cut out (which I've now replaced) and my air intake was full of oil which I've blasted out with a load of carb and air intake cleaner spray! Now I'm also suspecting a failed lift pump because the bloody thing didn't draw any fuel back into the fuel filter. The again the primer lever on Britpart (aka ****part) lift pumps never does much anyway. Bloody typical though. Just as a side note, save yourself a hell of a lot of hassle in the future by staying well clear of any produce manufactured or branded by Britpart. Their suspension springs and shock absorbers are relatively durable but everything else is made out of foil. Their lift pumps, fuel filters, air filters, gaskets, thermostats and even fuel tanks are all absolutely crap in comparison to companies like All makes 4x4, Bearmach and Delphi and you aren't going to be paying too much more for a much better built part that will last a hell of a lot longer.

-Pos

One thing ive noticed with my 19j is that if I use BP fuel I really have to gun the motor to get anywhere , but if I use shell she runs like a dream ( dont have to change down the box on hills that i would of done using BP fuel ) .

Anyone else come across this ??

yep BP fuel is shyte !
i use a colemans unleaded petrol stove and always use esso clean and burns very well , 1 time could'nt get to a esso station so went to the local BP boiled the kettle twice and the tranga ali kettle was compleatly black (took longer to boil to boot!:mad )

interesting that... esso is the good ****...

buckshot said:

yep BP fuel is shyte !
i use a colemans unleaded petrol stove and always use esso clean and burns very well , 1 time could'nt get to a esso station so went to the local BP boiled the kettle twice and the tranga ali kettle was compleatly black (took longer to boil to boot!:mad )

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Glad its not just me then , one things for sure i wont be filling up there again ( BP that is ) . Ive always rated Esso fuel but the closest one to me on my way home is an extra 4 miles through rush hour traffic and i couldnt be arsed with the hastle .

dont know about the esso? havnt got one around here nearest is 20miles or so.

anyway the result of todays tinkering is a perished boost diaphragm got a split in it bout 2cm long and a couple of pin holes. so be ordering a new one tommorow morning, il leave the fiddling with the injector pump till thats renewed as it may just solve the prob.

cheers for all the advice guys, pos iv got a good take off lift pump knocking around if your after one mate.

sypher said:

Glad its not just me then , one things for sure i wont be filling up there again ( BP that is ) . Ive always rated Esso fuel but the closest one to me on my way home is an extra 4 miles through rush hour traffic and i couldnt be arsed with the hastle .

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actually i use morrisons fuel in the td5 defender seems to like that better than asda dizel, goes a bit better and a tad farther on a tank full .
the nearest esso station to me is about the same distance as the morrisons but @ 3-4p a litre more they can keep their dizel

m35reo said:

dont know about the esso? havnt got one around here nearest is 20miles or so.

anyway the result of todays tinkering is a perished boost diaphragm got a split in it bout 2cm long and a couple of pin holes. so be ordering a new one tommorow morning, il leave the fiddling with the injector pump till thats renewed as it may just solve the prob.

cheers for all the advice guys, pos iv got a good take off lift pump knocking around if your after one mate.

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Glad that you've identified the problem, wont cost much to put that right and then it'll last for another few years. As for the lift pump, I tested it earlier and it seems to beworking fine. Well, it spewed diesel all over the engine bay and now there's a puddle of the stuff dissolving the tarmac outside

I always find that a mixture of Esso DERV and a few litres of morrisons veg oil makes a good solid fuel. Shell seems to vary up and down the country, good in ipswich, crap in Leeds Never really use BP

-Pos

just got to find somewhere that stocks this bloody part now!!

iv been running my motors on a 50/50 mix of diesel and that stuff you find in green plastic tanks in the garden ( obviously im lying and dont realy do that or condone such action) and never had any problems with it. but then i aint got any main roads etc around here so dont know if it would be crap at decent speeds? but its fine for running around the mountain roads and towing etc, occasionally stick some veg in it as well but only as mix with diesel.

Can the diaphragm be goosed without pressurising the tank? My td has been smoking on acceleration more than it shud. (bit like a James bond smoke screen at night) Dun filters, injectors and the usual stuff but it's nt sorted. I've just tried the adjustment bolt on the pump bt can't turn the bolt into the pump.

mine wasnt pressureising the tank either mate, worth a look as its easy enough to check it out.

Great, I've been unsure if it was turbo related issues cos it ain't sounded rite to me either. Have u managed to source the part cos I'm avin no joy?

That part's a bastard to find. I've had a look on paddockspares and johncraddock but there's no trace. Best thing to do is ring Paddocks, they'll be able to source it for you.

D.G.F.S:
The fuel adjustment bolt has a lock nut right at the end of the bolt where it enters the injection pump housing. You need to slacken this off first and then wind the bolt in a touch - or out if it's smoking like a trooper.

-Pos

Ask the creator of this thread for details of the guy who supplied him with a boost diaphragm. If he doesn't have the info, or he doesn't respond, then ask Shifty

-Pos

pos said:

That part's a bastard to find. I've had a look on paddockspares and johncraddock but there's no trace. Best thing to do is ring Paddocks, they'll be able to source it for you.
Will do thanks.
D.G.F.S:
The fuel adjustment bolt has a lock nut right at the end of the bolt where it enters the injection pump housing. You need to slacken this off first and then wind the bolt in a touch - or out if it's smoking like a trooper.
-Pos

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The lock nut u mention, it's about 3-4mm below the bolt head? Roughley 21/22 mm, turn that and the bolt turns with it? Or am I turning the wrong nut?