New brake pad issue

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Gertie36

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31
Location
Bristol
I'm Coming towards the end of my front axle rebuild on my s3, and would like thoughts on the following. it's had new brake pads fitted and I've used the adjuster to close up the shoes but when I fit the brake drum I find that the drum is rubbing on each end of the pad. I notice the originals taper in at the ends, but mine don't. Will they bed in, is the non taper normal and they will wear? Thanks!!
 
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Check out @davebeccles rebuild thread on his ex army series 3. Pages 11 and 12 he can't get his drums on and ends up trimming 3mm off the new britpart brake pads. Unfortunately the pictures he uploaded aren't working but I don't think it's uncommon for the new pads to foul
 
I used Mintex shoes on my S3. I used a rough file to taper the front and back edge and a little on the sides. I couldn't get the drum to move until I did that.
Col
 
I also just wonder if the drums are slightly oval ? Thanks for the thoughts so far. Here's progress upto Saturday
IMG_1372.JPG
 
Gertie36 said:
I also just wonder if the drums are slightly oval ? Thanks for the thoughts so far. Here's progress upto Saturday
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If you read through some of the past series threads concerning brakes, you will see a lot of folk who think their drums are oval. In my opinion this is rarely the case unless you buy a britpart drum which probably started out as oval. If you think about it, it is pretty difficult to wear a drum into an oval shape.

Col
 
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A drum dropped on it's edge can go out of shape , chamfering the edges is normal practice.
Some times the lining is also too wide and the longitudal edges need chamfer as well.
 
I relined all my brakes last year, all Mintex shoes. Only done about a thousand miles and the fronts still bind unless I back off the adjusters by five clicks. Everything works fine but I think that the Mintex of today are a mere shadow of their former days. The linings were far from smooth, rather soft and lumpy and I think the lumps are the problem. I might have the drums off again and emery cloth the buggers smoother; there again, I might just wait till they bed in a bit more and see if I can't adjust them up a bit tighter.
Edit: I did chamfer the shoes, leading and trailing edges. It's a practice I always used to carry out years ago but for a reason I can't remember now, I abandoned it; I think I read somewhere that it was a waste of effort... however I reinstated it for this job. At worst it does no harm.
 
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Extreedoc said:
I relined all my brakes last year, all Mintex shoes. Only done about a thousand miles and the fronts still bind unless I back off the adjusters by five clicks. Everything works fine but I think that the Mintex of today is a mere shadow of its former days. The linings were far from smooth, rather soft and lumpy and I think the lumps are the problem. I might have the drums off again and emery cloth the buggers smoother, there again, I might just wait till they bed in a bit more and see if I can't adjust them up a bit tighter...
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How many miles have you done on the new shoes? I would have thought a hundred or so miles town driving would be enough to bed them in and wear off any high spots. You are right about the Mintex shoes not being as good as days gone by, but for a series landy, they are still the best you can get, in my humble opinion but I'd be glad to hear another opinion.

Col
 
Colthebrummie said:
How many miles have you done on the new shoes? I would have thought a hundred or so miles town driving would be enough to bed them in and wear off any high spots. You are right about the Mintex shoes not being as good as days gone by, but for a series landy, they are still the best you can get, in my humble opinion but I'd be glad to hear another opinion.

Col
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Mileage stated in my post.
Can't really comment on other makes of lining, I ordered a set of Bearmach shoes to put in stock for when these Mintex ones wear out, a fraction of the cost. Britpart ones showed up - thanks Paddocks... I inspected them and they seem ok so I kept them, cheap enough to be worth an experiment. Not heard anybody complain about Britpart shoes and I did ask. They are noticeably harder but much smoother finished than the Mintex ones.

I've been thinking about getting a set relined by a specialist that we used to use back in the day, they are still going strong forty years on! I used to have them reline motorcycle shoes for me. They are called : Bonding and Reline Services, Thurmaston near Leicester, they are on the web. Might be a good alternative to buying shoes off the shelf?

Edit: Just found this: http://bondingandreline.co.uk/
 
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Extreedoc said:
Mileage stated in my post.
Can't really comment on other makes of lining, I ordered a set of Bearmach shoes to put in stock for when these Mintex ones wear out, a fraction of the cost. Britpart ones showed up - thanks Paddocks... I inspected them and they seem ok so I kept them, cheap enough to be worth an experiment. Not heard anybody complain about Britpart shoes and I did ask. They are noticeably harder but much smoother finished than the Mintex ones.

I've been thinking about getting a set relined by a specialist that we used to use back in the day, they are still going strong forty years on! I used to have them reline motorcycle shoes for me. They are called : Bonding and Reline Services, Thurmaston near Leicester, they are on the web. Might be a good alternative to buying shoes off the shelf?

Edit: Just found this: http://bondingandreline.co.uk/
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Sorry, I must have missed that bit, speed reading is not all its cracked up to be. A thousand miles should be plenty enough to bed the linings in, have you got any contamination in there. As well as chamfering the edges, I always rough up the surface with the edge of the file. That's how I was taught 40 odd years ago by a very good brake fitter when I was a trainee bus mechanic.

Col
 
Colthebrummie said:
Sorry, I must have missed that bit, speed reading is not all its cracked up to be. A thousand miles should be plenty enough to bed the linings in, have you got any contamination in there. As well as chamfering the edges, I always rough up the surface with the edge of the file. That's how I was taught 40 odd years ago by a very good brake fitter when I was a trainee bus mechanic.

Col
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I agree Col, they should be bedded in by now, I can see what's coming up... another drums off session. I doubt very much that there is contamination though, new hub seals fitted and wheel bearings re-packed, wheel cylinders all good.
I was also a young mechanic 40 plus years ago, nearer to 50 thinking on it. I was taught to chamfer the ends of the linings but never heard the one about roughing the surface of the shoe; can't see why...? But I do remember the brakes squealing on buses back in those days, perhaps for that reason?
John
 
Extreedoc said:
I agree Col, they should be bedded in by now, I can see what's coming up... another drums off session. I doubt very much that there is contamination though, new hub seals fitted and wheel bearings re-packed, wheel cylinders all good.
I was also a young mechanic 40 plus years ago, nearer to 50 thinking on it. I was taught to chamfer the ends of the linings but never heard the one about roughing the surface of the shoe; can't see why...? But I do remember the brakes squealing on buses back in those days, perhaps for that reason?
John
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Yes it was to minimise squealing but also it helped bed the linings in quicker. Afteral, a bus driver wouldn't know that new brake shoes had just been fitted. After we had replaced the brakes, we would take the bus for an extended road test, find a quiet road and brake hard several times to help things along.

Col
 
Ideally shoes should be set up on lathe and turned to an exact fit but who does that anymore? Use a coarse file to get a rought fit, file at 45 deg then you can see whare the high spots are. I used to have some self adhesive emery - you could stick it in the drum and work it by hand. Its also important to follow the proper brake bedding in proceedure. It should be on the web or in an old manual, the shoes harden with heat and start a little bit soft so you must make your first few stops really hard to wear as much off as possible before they harden up. It used to be drive at 30 and to 5 or 6 full emergency stops then adjust then do it again, avoid doing a gentle first stop on new shoes as all this does is harden them before they wear in.
 
I have recently fitted new Mintex shoes on the front of my 109. They fitted well.

The only problem I have is they grab a bit on the first brake application after a cold / damp night. I suppose heeling and toeing the shoes would reduce this, but, I can deal with it by dragging the brakes a bit for the first 10 yards down our street as I set off.
 
Colthebrummie said:
Yes it was to minimise squealing but also it helped bed the linings in quicker. Afteral, a bus driver wouldn't know that new brake shoes had just been fitted. After we had replaced the brakes, we would take the bus for an extended road test, find a quiet road and brake hard several times to help things along.

Col
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rob1miles said:
Ideally shoes should be set up on lathe and turned to an exact fit but who does that anymore? Use a coarse file to get a rought fit, file at 45 deg then you can see whare the high spots are. I used to have some self adhesive emery - you could stick it in the drum and work it by hand. Its also important to follow the proper brake bedding in proceedure. It should be on the web or in an old manual, the shoes harden with heat and start a little bit soft so you must make your first few stops really hard to wear as much off as possible before they harden up. It used to be drive at 30 and to 5 or 6 full emergency stops then adjust then do it again, avoid doing a gentle first stop on new shoes as all this does is harden them before they wear in.
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I suppose that turning shoes up on a lathe had to be done because the lining material wasn't precision manufactured like it is now, (hopefully), and had to be turned down before the drum would even fit on. Then racing brakes would be turned to get better brakes quicker. I remember getting a set of AM4 racing linings for my Laverda 750 SF motorcycle. They needed to be turned down in a lathe before they would fit the drums. I couldn't find anybody nearby who could take on the job so I gave up and sent them back to Slaters.
Bedding in: I usually take the vehicle out and brake heavily a few times, I tend to go by 'feel' as it were.
 
I once had a set for a BSA turned, the drum had been skimmed (as new were not available). The guy bolted them to a face plate, it was 10 minutes setting up and 30secs turning, being a BSA the brakes were still pants (7in SLS). I always liked the look of the 750 SF, what was it like?
 
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