Series 3 Mythical '369' series 5MB diesel engine - can anyone shed any light?

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steve2286w said:
I thought the oil filler pipe mounted on side of block was on more earlier engines, it’s not on my 84.
The engine number 00813 is very low too, my 84 is over 24200 so perhaps it’s an early 366 wrongly stamped or from outside uk, do the other markings on the block look like casting dates

answered my own question ( info from other site)


Four cylinder engines built from 1970 can be fairly accurately dated by reference to the date cast into the side of the block between a couple of core plugs on the manifold side of the block. On some lower engines it can apparently be lower down.


  • The first one or two numbers are the date in the month it was built (1 to 31)
  • The next digit will be a letter (A = Jan, B = Feb etc) The letter I is not used.
  • The last digit is the year, on a 10 year cycle (so 'I' could be 1971, 1981 or 1991.
Click to expand...
Interesting point about the low engine number.

That is definitely a 5 bearing diesel, though, it has the extra webs cast on the outside of the block.

I think the oil filler pipe can be bolted on any engine, if it isn't there, there will just be a plate covering the hole.
 
Yes mine. Has the plate
5mb came out in 1980 according to glencoyne
Engine block cast 26 Jan 1983
Mine registered Jan 84 so unlikely to go from 813 to over 24000 in one year and looks odd to go from zero to 813 in 3 years ?
 
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Using the information above, it looks like a date code is cast into it then - 23rd Jan '3', so probably 1983.....

I don't buy the theory that the '9' is an upside down '6' and it should be 366 - there's no way the person stamping the block would stamp a 6, then at the very next number manage to turn the stamp upside down.... Besides which, we know this block isn't unique as there is at least one other example out there that's stamped 369....
 
angello said:
Using the information above, it looks like a date code is cast into it then - 23rd Jan '3', so probably 1983.....

I don't buy the theory that the '9' is an upside down '6' and it should be 366 - there's no way the person stamping the block would stamp a 6, then at the very next number manage to turn the stamp upside down.... Besides which, we know this block isn't unique as there is at least one other example out there that's stamped 369....
Click to expand...
How do we know there is another stamped 369? And what is that one in?
 
angello said:
Using the information above, it looks like a date code is cast into it then - 23rd Jan '3', so probably 1983.....

I don't buy the theory that the '9' is an upside down '6' and it should be 366 - there's no way the person stamping the block would stamp a 6, then at the very next number manage to turn the stamp upside down.... Besides which, we know this block isn't unique as there is at least one other example out there that's stamped 369....
Click to expand...
By the way, not saying you are wrong about the stamping in this case.
But I would believe pretty much anything about what went on in the factory during the BL years.
The company didn't have any money, and was being run into the ground to be sold off in bits.
The workers didn't care, as they hated management, and thought it likely they were going to lose their jobs fairly soon.
 
angello said:
Using the information above, it looks like a date code is cast into it then - 23rd Jan '3', so probably 1983.....

I don't buy the theory that the '9' is an upside down '6' and it should be 366 - there's no way the person stamping the block would stamp a 6, then at the very next number manage to turn the stamp upside down.... Besides which, we know this block isn't unique as there is at least one other example out there that's stamped 369....
Click to expand...
Just had another thought. Santana made a Series 3, and what they called a Series 3a.
Might be worth looking up Santana engine numbers on the net, see what you can find out.
To be honest, I have never had anything to do with Santanas at all, but I have seen them in Spain and Portugal.
 
Turboman said:
How do we know there is another stamped 369? And what is that one in?
Click to expand...

See the OP from this thread comments on page 2 here - https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/odd-lr-88-engine-number.232928/page-2

And the original query from 2018 states:

"I found an interesting LR88 i would buy, the chassis number 907 accords with the year 1974, but the engine prefix is a strange 369, engine capacity reported is 2488 cm3...
The engine is a diesel and the owner says is a 1984 five main bearing... What engine could it be?"
 
Mik87 said:
See the OP from this thread comments on page 2 here - https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/odd-lr-88-engine-number.232928/page-2

And the original query from 2018 states:

"I found an interesting LR88 i would buy, the chassis number 907 accords with the year 1974, but the engine prefix is a strange 369, engine capacity reported is 2488 cm3...
The engine is a diesel and the owner says is a 1984 five main bearing... What engine could it be?"
Click to expand...
A 2.5 NA is close to that, 2495cc. But the engine that is pictured here is not a 2.5NA.
I wouldn't take as Gospel much that owners, or V5 documents, say about capacities.

As the engine number on the engine in OPs picture is not only a non standard number, but stamped in a non-standard place, I would lean towards the view that at some time, somewhere, there has been an engine reconditioner stamping their own numbers on engines they have rebuilt.

Lots of reconditioners do this.
 
tottot said:
Or even a ringer?
Click to expand...
I did consider that, but there is no evidence of any old numbers or anything being ground off and re-stamped. If you look closely at the picture of the engine number you can see it's been stamped directly into the cast surface, the engine number plinth hasn't been machined in any way and remains in 'out-of-the-mould' finish, with the number stamped straight on.....
 
angello said:
I did consider that, but there is no evidence of any old numbers or anything being ground off and re-stamped. If you look closely at the picture of the engine number you can see it's been stamped directly into the cast surface, the engine number plinth hasn't been machined in any way and remains in 'out-of-the-mould' finish, with the number stamped straight on.....
Click to expand...
I doubt if it is a ringer, but all that you are saying also applies to any 4 cylinder Series engine.
The numbers are hand stamped onto the cast iron of the engine, as shown on the Glencore site, on the angled part of the block just behind where the water pump bolts on.
Numbering was just to enable parts ordering, vehicle theft wasn't a big issue in those days, especially Series Land Rovers, which were just considered a rough working vehicle.
I think the number you are looking at has been hand stamped by someone not working at the Land Rover factory, possibly an engine reconditioner.

Have you looked in the place where the engine number should be? See if there are any numbers, or if the block has been ground at all?

Also, just out of curiosity, why are you interested enough in this to post on several forums about it over a period of several years?

Do you need to order parts for the engine?
 
[QUOTE="Turboman, post

Have you looked in the place where the engine number should be? See if there are any numbers, or if the block has been ground at all?

Also, just out of curiosity, why are you interested enough in this to post on several forums about it over a period of several years?



Good questions.
 
Guys, this really isn't that complicated :D
The engine number IS in the normal place on the plinth at the front of the block under the manifold here:-


I'm only interested because I'm curious and it's an anomaly. I'm rebuilding a Series 2a onto a new chassis, I knew the engine in it wasn't original and was a later upgrade (presumed from a Series 3), so I looked up the engine number to see what sort of engine and what sort of date it was. That's when I found that the engine number it was wearing wasn't in the normal list of engine numbers for the Series 2.25 engines. I haven't posted over several years about this - when I found the number on this engine started 369 I didn't recognise it, couldn't find it and hit Google. Google turned up the old thread on LRUK, so I posted on there to see if the OP had found anything out about the 369 engine that they had. I posted here simultaneously to broaden the potential knowledge base I'm appealing to. I'm sorry, but I don't buy the theory that it had been mis-stamped :oops: particularly now I knew there was someone else who had the same anomaly. Besides which, the serial number was too low on my engine for it to be a mis-stamped 366 made in Jan '83 (as that's when the block was cast). It just didn't add up....

My opinion is that there is a series of factory produced Land Rover 5MB diesel engines out there with factory engine numbers starting 369 that have since been lost to the archives and history records.... I think there is some relevance and importance to documenting that and trying to fill in those historical blanks.

As it happens I've since spoken to Glencoyne and the most likely conclusion is that the 369 engine was probably a FX4R taxi engine series from when the FX4 had the Series 2.25 diesel engine fitted in '83-'84. It makes sense for dates and serial numbers and is the best fit, so far, particularly as my engine also had a belt driven vacuum pump apparently typical of the FX4R application. Given that they weren't particularly successful in the FX4R, there probably aren't many 369 engines left - not that this makes my engine particularly 'special' or 'rare', but is quite interesting.... to me anyway!

With that information as a best guess I am better informed, have potentially gone some way to filling in some blanks in the historical engine number nomenclature and, more importantly, can formulate a plan for this engine in my rebuild project.... Given that there is a strong possibility that it's an ex-taxi engine, there is a good chance it's well worn... I haven't been able to labour it to assess that yet as the vehicle wasn't roadworthy on arrival, so I need to factor that into the rebuild process and potentially budget for a rebuild or possibly even a transplant.... That's something that was previously unknown prior to looking up the engine number.... and THAT'S why it's interesting enough to start posts like this, build the knowledge and share the information :)
 
angello said:
Guys, this really isn't that complicated :D
The engine number IS in the normal place on the plinth at the front of the block under the manifold here:-


I'm only interested because I'm curious and it's an anomaly. I'm rebuilding a Series 2a onto a new chassis, I knew the engine in it wasn't original and was a later upgrade (presumed from a Series 3), so I looked up the engine number to see what sort of engine and what sort of date it was. That's when I found that the engine number it was wearing wasn't in the normal list of engine numbers for the Series 2.25 engines. I haven't posted over several years about this - when I found the number on this engine started 369 I didn't recognise it, couldn't find it and hit Google. Google turned up the old thread on LRUK, so I posted on there to see if the OP had found anything out about the 369 engine that they had. I posted here simultaneously to broaden the potential knowledge base I'm appealing to. I'm sorry, but I don't buy the theory that it had been mis-stamped :oops: particularly now I knew there was someone else who had the same anomaly. Besides which, the serial number was too low on my engine for it to be a mis-stamped 366 made in Jan '83 (as that's when the block was cast). It just didn't add up....

My opinion is that there is a series of factory produced Land Rover 5MB diesel engines out there with factory engine numbers starting 369 that have since been lost to the archives and history records.... I think there is some relevance and importance to documenting that and trying to fill in those historical blanks.

As it happens I've since spoken to Glencoyne and the most likely conclusion is that the 369 engine was probably a FX4R taxi engine series from when the FX4 had the Series 2.25 diesel engine fitted in '83-'84. It makes sense for dates and serial numbers and is the best fit, so far, particularly as my engine also had a belt driven vacuum pump apparently typical of the FX4R application. Given that they weren't particularly successful in the FX4R, there probably aren't many 369 engines left - not that this makes my engine particularly 'special' or 'rare', but is quite interesting.... to me anyway!

With that information as a best guess I am better informed, have potentially gone some way to filling in some blanks in the historical engine number nomenclature and, more importantly, can formulate a plan for this engine in my rebuild project.... Given that there is a strong possibility that it's an ex-taxi engine, there is a good chance it's well worn... I haven't been able to labour it to assess that yet as the vehicle wasn't roadworthy on arrival, so I need to factor that into the rebuild process and potentially budget for a rebuild or possibly even a transplant.... That's something that was previously unknown prior to looking up the engine number.... and THAT'S why it's interesting enough to start posts like this, build the knowledge and share the information :)
Click to expand...
I think you might be the only person on the planet who is actually interested. :D

I am more interested in what wood Noah's Ark was built out of then in that!
But I am not going to ask you, because I know already.

If Glencoyne thinks it is a taxi engine, it probably is.
And they are usually pretty shagged, so it might be a good idea to get another engine altogether.
My choice would be a 2.5 NA or a 2.5 Petrol, if you can find one.
Much better engines than a 2286cc diesel, and quite easy to fit in a Series.
 
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