Freelander 1 My TD4 SE Auto Misfire Thread

[Nodge68]

Since the TD4 misfire that prompted this thread has completely cleared. I thought I'd update on the ever present 2K misfire. I am currently looking into the possible causes.
While conducting some tests at various engine speeds, I noticed that at 2K Rpm, there's huge amounts of smoke produced.
I took a short bit of video (badly I'm afraid). However it shows the smoke and it's colour of blue.
Now the engine doesn't smoke at any time except on heavy acceleration, although that is black.
This blue smoke is only evident when holding the throttle at 2K Rpm unloaded.
So I'm now wondering if at light throttle at around 2K that the breather system is drawing in oil, which ends up being burnt. This, I tiink, could well upset the combustion process enough to create a misfire.
So could anyone else with the 2K misfire check there exhaust smoke colour, while holding the throttle at 2K.
Cheers

 

[Joe_H]

Since the TD4 misfire that prompted this thread has completely cleared. I thought I'd update on the ever present 2K misfire. I am currently looking into the possible causes.
While conducting some tests at various engine speeds, I noticed that at 2K Rpm, there's huge amounts of smoke produced.
I took a short bit of video (badly I'm afraid). However it shows the smoke and it's colour of blue.
Now the engine doesn't smoke at any time except on heavy acceleration, although that is black.
This blue smoke is only evident when holding the throttle at 2K Rpm unloaded.
So I'm now wondering if at light throttle at around 2K that the breather system is drawing in oil, which ends up being burnt. This, I tiink, could well upset the combustion process enough to create a misfire.
So could anyone else with the 2K misfire check there exhaust smoke colour, while holding the throttle at 2K.
Cheers

Hi Nodge, from what I can see and here (with the limited video) - that is a one pot misfire only - regularly 'irregular' - (same pot)
You can see it in the smoke pulse also. - that is a lot of smoke on light revs. Obviously you are burning oil somewhere.
Unless you can rule out a single pot (which I cannot from what I see and hear) then I would suspect a cylinder issue.
Re breather, again, with the info, I would think not as I wouldn't expect a breather issue to only impact one pot.
When you get the black smoke it is probably accompanied with blue - difficult to tell unless you can smell it (oil burning)
Have you done a leak down test ? . A single pot issue could certainly cause the symptoms you have.
Also, what is the situation with the same test as in the video with the dipstick removed ? - are you seeing any crankcase pressurisation.
Joe

 

[Nodge68]

Thanks for the input Joe.

Since seeing this off load smoke, I've been wondering if I have a leaking inlet valve oil seal or oil control ring.
There is a misfire, but only ~2K Rpm at light throttle. Any load on the engine, even at 2K Rpm cures the misfire and the blue smoke. The blue smoke is only evident when the misfire is occuring. It's very strange, but from reports I've been reading, the 2K misfire is very common.on the TD4. Sadly I've not read a definitive cure for it. It does make more smoke if the engine is below running temperature.
I'll be conducting more tests over the coming weeks. I'll add a longer video too.
Oh and no, I've not got any more crank case pressure than I'd expect.

 

[Joe_H]

Thanks for the input Joe.

Since seeing this off load smoke, I've been wondering if I have a leaking inlet valve oil seal or oil control ring.
There is a misfire, but only ~2K Rpm at light throttle. Any load on the engine, even at 2K Rpm cures the misfire and the blue smoke. The blue smoke is only evident when the misfire is occuring. It's very strange, but from reports I've been reading, the 2K misfire is very common.on the TD4. Sadly I've not read a definitive cure for it.
I'll be conducting more tests over the coming weeks.
Oh and no, I've not got any more crank case pressure than I'd expect.

Weird one ...
I would be definitely looking at a leak down as it really does sound like one pot. I have heard of the issues with strange misfires on that engine at certain rpm, but I would doubt they would be accompanied by burning oil. ? . The black smoke as you load it is worrying as well. I believe you removed the fuel sensor tweaker ?. That then leaves you with a very rich mixture either on all or one pot. - as It would have to be either over fuelling or simply not burning cleanly to cause such black smoke it gives you a couple of areas to look at. Over-fuelling could be causing diesel wash in one or more pots at light load and then black smoke at load. Wash can cause oil bypass issues (I know lol - granny and sucking eggs ) but just thinking out loud as it sometimes helps to compare thoughts....
How much of the breather system can you temporarily disconnect from the induction ? (although without pressurisation of the case I seriously doubt that that is an issue as both would tend to go hand in hand.)
The turbo could cause oil bypass of course.... but your black smoke would probably (or should probably) stink of burning oil...
Do all the figures on the MAP / MAF and HPFS look logical ?
How about the VNT system ? - can you actuate that from the 930 ? - would be interesting...

Considering all, I really do think a leak down is called for as otherwise it ends up as a tail chaser

Interesting though - (well - it would be if it was someone elses )

 

[Nodge68]

The blue smoke is only there at light throttle, off load at around 2K. The black is only there if I punch the throttle hard to accelerate away. Full throttle while climbing a hill for instance, no smoke of any colour is evident.
It is very strange. As when driving normally, it's running smoothly without a hint of missing or even imbalance. All live data looks spot on too.
It doesn't loose oil, but it is over filled by a 1/4" on the stick.
The I930 is pretty basic, so can't actuate anything. It can't even display cylinder balancing offset, which is a pain.

 

[Joe_H]

The blue smoke is only there at light throttle, off load at around 2K. The black is only there if I punch the throttle hard to accelerate away. Full throttle while climbing a hill for instance, no smoke of any colour is evident.
It is very strange. As when driving normally, it's running smoothly without a hint of missing or even imbalance.
It doesn't loose oil, but it is over filled by a 1/4" on the stick.
The I930 is pretty basic, so can't actuate anything. It can't even display cylinder balancing offset, which is a pain.

Bit if a b*gger re the 930 and actuators, I thought it did 'some' ..
Well,.... that's it then, you are just going to have to drive over here, force yourself to drink cold beer and stick the lynx on it. ........................
I would personally be looking at one thing at a time - the most worrying - initially - and the most likely to yield a result - is the oil burning and misfire at 2k. The two are imo definitely connected as the smoke pulses and sounds show / indicate.
Again though - it comes back to a leak down.
If you get a perfectly acceptable leak down then you definitely know it is induced oil via induction. I doubt that though for the reasons in the previous post as induced oil would not tend to favour one pot or cause a regular irregularity.
Get the pump on it , or the Basil ..... !

 

[Gaj1612]

mine does exactly the same as yours at 2krpm ill make a vid of it tomorrow when the injectors are back in and its all built up.

 

[Nodge68]

mine does exactly the same as yours at 2krpm ill make a vid of it tomorrow when the injectors are back in and its all built up.

It's a very common TD4 problem. Be interesting to see if yours also makes blue smoke.

 

[Gaj1612]

It's a very common TD4 problem. Be interesting to see if yours also makes blue smoke.

everything seems to be a common td4 problem. i sometimes wish i kept my L series. only things that needed was a fuel filter and leak off pipes, oh and a new jubilee clip on the intercooler pipe (hard times )

as soon as its built up ill post a vid here.

 

[Nodge68]

everything seems to be a common td4 problem. i sometimes wish i kept my L series. only things that needed was a fuel filter and leak off pipes, oh and a new jubilee clip on the intercooler pipe (hard times )

as soon as its built up ill post a vid here.

It's true that the TD4 does have a good number of common problems. But what else would we expect from a BMW engine.
I only have a TD4 because I think the Freelander is better as an automatic and I don't want to fuel a V6.
If the V6 was more economical, I'd take one over the TD4, any day.

 

[gstuart]

It's true that the TD4 does have a good number of common problems. But what else would we expect from a BMW engine.
I only have a TD4 because I think the Freelander is better as an automatic and I don't want to fuel a V6.
If the V6 was more economical, I'd take one over the TD4, any day.

may i ask a stupid question plse

isn't it at 2,000 revs the turbo comes in, could this in any way cause the smoke ??

would it help if i plug my hawkeyes in to see what readings i get at 2,000 revs , or any particular readings u want me to look for ,

 

[Nodge68]

may i ask a stupid question plse

isn't it at 2,000 revs the turbo comes in, could this in any way cause the smoke ??

would it help if i plug my hawkeyes in to see what readings i get at 2,000 revs , or any particular readings u want me to look for ,

Under light throttle, holding it at 2K, the turbo shouldn't be boosting much, if anything.
You're welcome to put down some 2K Rpm figures though.
MAF, MAP and fuel rail pressure could be useful. I used a stick to hold the throttle down enough for 2K running, so I didn't need to sit in the driver's seat.

 

[gstuart]

Under light throttle, holding it at 2K, the turbo shouldn't be boosting much, if anything.
You're welcome to put down some 2K Rpm figures though.
MAF, MAP and fuel rail pressure could be useful. I used a stick to hold the throttle down enough for 2K running, so I didn't need to sit in the driver's seat.

ok mate will try and do some figures at the weekend for u

 

[Nodge68]

ok mate will try and do some figures at the weekend for u

Out of interest. Does your TD4 suffer from the 2K Rpm misfire?

 

[Joe_H]

I cannot see a 'feature' of the td4 being a light throttle misfire at 2K on all units. It sounds like the L series 1800 rpm judder - I dont mean physically sounds lol - I mean as a comparative.
There are loads of reports of L series suffering from a judder on acceleration between 1800 and 2200. - Many were told it was 'normal' for this engine. The reality was that it was a clutch fault - usually and almost always due to oil contamination.

I would be surprised if the '2k misfire' was anything else apart from a manifestation of a common issue due to a common problem. Identifying the underlying cause is the difficult part. Unfortunately we often only really here of the problematic motors and not the 'non' problematic ones
Yours is a very interesting one Nodge as the burning oil is another aspect.
Even with another vehicle where an owner reported a '2k misfire' - I would be interested in comparing the exhaust sound and appearance to your vid.
Yours was a very specific misfire with additional 'qualities' (ie burning oil)
Very strange..... will follow with interest.
Joe

 

[Nodge68]

I cannot see a 'feature' of the td4 being a light throttle misfire at 2K on all units. It sounds like the L series 1800 rpm judder - I dont mean physically sounds lol - I mean as a comparative.
There are loads of reports of L series suffering from a judder on acceleration between 1800 and 2200. - Many were told it was 'normal' for this engine. The reality was that it was a clutch fault - usually and almost always due to oil contamination.

I would be surprised if the '2k misfire' was anything else apart from a manifestation of a common issue due to a common problem. Identifying the underlying cause is the difficult part. Unfortunately we often only really here of the problematic motors and not the 'non' problematic ones
Yours is a very interesting one Nodge as the burning oil is another aspect.
Even with another vehicle where an owner reported a '2k misfire' - I would be interested in comparing the exhaust sound and appearance to your vid.
Yours was a very specific misfire with additional 'qualities' (ie burning oil)
Very strange..... will follow with interest.
Joe

I'd like to identify the cause Joe. The engine runs perfectly all the time, except when on a light throttle at ~2K. There's no blue at start up, or any other time in the operating cycle. It just manifests itself if the throttle is held open enough to run the engine at 2K. It also misfires on a trailing throttle at the same 2K. I've not noticed any smoke at that time. But I have read that other's with the 2K misfire do get smoke.
I will solve this, as it's clearly not correct, even though it's quite common.

 

[Gaj1612]

heres the vid of mine smoking, ill try and get one from exhaust tomorrow if i can find a stick.

 

[Joe_H]

heres the vid of mine smoking, ill try and get one from exhaust tomorrow if i can find a stick.

Doesn't sound to be missing Gaj. Does it smoke all the time (40 a day ) ?

 

[Gaj1612]

Doesn't sound to be missing Gaj. Does it smoke all the time (40 a day ) ?

nah no smoking its got an ecig , ill try and get a better vid of it tomorrow. it doesnt seem to miss unless im driving it for some reason

edit: to actually answer your question
no it doesnt smoke all the time only when its held at 2k rpm

 

[gstuart]

Out of interest. Does your TD4 suffer from the 2K Rpm misfire?

i've never noticed it to be honest

however around 50mph which is around the 2,000 rev mark i get a flat spot , normally put it into sports or kickdown if i'm going up a steep hill

seems like a small vibration in the engine if that makes sense

will check it out and write down some figures for u

just got to find something for the gas pedal