My email to trader and traders response to selling me a stolen vehicle !!!

what i sent:



Hello Jan



I bought a blue Landrover Defender 90 (E236 SWN) from you in March 2010 – I bought it from you for £2995 and have since spent at least a further £3000 firstly to get it to pass the MOT and also to fix a number of issues with the engine as well as adding my own personal stamp on the vehicle. I have all the receipts for the work carried out.



I was stopped by the police five weeks ago as the vehicle has been cloned and is listed as stolen. It is in fact registered as a slate grey Defender 90 with the registration (F155 OVC). It has been seized from me and is now the property of the insurance company.



The police were quite critical of the fact that, as you are a trader with over 20 years experience, you hadn’t spotted the fact that the vehicle plate had been hand stamped and the chassis number ground off before you sold it on to me.



After some weeks of negotiation with the insurance company passing on copies of all the receipts to them I was hoping to buy back the vehicle myself, however have now been informed that the original owner of the vehicle is now looking to purchase it back.



As you can imagine I am extremely angry about this situation as I’m out of pocket to the tune of over £6000 and am without a vehicle which has had an impact on the work I do as an arborist.



It has also cost me to cancel my insurance and to take out temporary insurance on a borrowed car.



I’ve been taking advice from several sources and the Landrover forums have been really helpful.



I’m writing to you as the trader hoping that we can sort this issue out without taking any legal recourse, as you must take some responsibility for this and I’d hate to have to pass any reluctance on your part onto the Landrover forums as mud will definitely stick.



Your reputation was boosted by your recent appearance on Wheeler Dealers, it would be a shame for this to be tarnished.



A good outcome on my part will result in some good public relations.




Looking forward to your comments


Tom Roane

what he replied:

Tom,

I am very sorry to hear what has happened to your Landrover. Whenever I purchase a vehicle or even take one in as a part exchange I do all reasonable, available checks. I rely on information I receive from "text check" ie an hpi check. At the time in came back all clear. Out of interest I have just done another hpi check by the same method and it has again come back all clear! You would think that based on what you have told me that their information would have been updated or at least some comment that a cloned vehicle is in existence. It is so easy for the police to be critical, but the vehicle was a 24 year old vehicle and could easily have had welding or repair work to the chassis part that displays number. A large percentage of older Landrovers do not still display the chassis numbers for a number of reasons. As for the " hand stamped" vin plate, again they can have been replaced for a number of reasons. I find it quite easy to be rather critical of the police who if they did their job properly, less Landrovers would be stolen and more would be recovered.
Whilst I am sorry to hear what has happened, I do not like to be threatened with adverse publicity and would point out that an attempt do do so could result in legal action from myself. I dont really see that I am responsible for the action of other people ie car thiefs, police that cant really be bothered trying to find the thiefs and the information given to me by independant hpi companys.
I do understand your anger as this has happened to myself on a £6,000 Landrover, so I do know what you are going through, but like you, I am an innocent party here. I really do not know what to suggest. As far as I was aware, both at the time of purchasing and at the time of selling, Land Rover registration number E236 SWN was a legitimate vehicle.

Regards

Jan

What Consumer credit have to say:

Dear Mr Roane,
Thank you for your enquiry to Consumer Direct. The key legal points in response to your enquiry are as follows:


When a consumer purchases goods from a business, they will have rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended. This legislation states that the seller must have title of the goods in order to sell them. Where this is not the case, the seller of the goods can be held in breach of contract and may have to offer a remedy to the consumer.

In your situation, you would seek the 'current market value' of the vehicle, taking into account age and mileage. You would argue that it is not relevant whether the seller was aware or not. The seller would need to make their own claim against the party they purchased the vehicle from.
When you have a complaint of this nature it would usually be wise to write a recorded delivery letter to the trader. You should outline the law as mentioned above, and request a partial refund. Make sure that you keep a copy of correspondence for your records in case you need to use it as evidence at a later stage.

My suggestion is contact consumer direct on the crock of **** thread again.

The way I see it is that the hpi being defective should have insurance backing it-that is between trader and HPI.

As I see it you could investigate your options with consumer direct (free), but the trader whether acting in good faith or not does not have good title to the goods he sold.

I really don't want to get dragged into the where,why's and if's and I do understand your heartache- I think some free legal advice and a non public decision of what you do next is the best way to proceed.

I'm sure MHM won't mind me saying that privately we would discuss with you if you want to consult us.

But you also don't want to potentially adversely affect future possible legal proceedings by commenting on trader who appears to unfortunately been caught out like yourself.

hear hear. just wanted to show people the traders response. Im currently trying to pursue the matter through Visa under section 75 of the comsumer credit act which insures the buyers goods and consequencial losses for the full amount of purchase. Also went to see my local MP today who is going to bring up the question of how the DVLA can collect road tax on two vehicles with the same registration at the same time as they say "they know when you havent paid" on their advert but dnt know when two pay for same reg.

according to HPI Check - Used Car History, Finance, Write Off & Vehicle Data.....

Only HPI covers you against buying:
A car with outstanding finance
A car reported as stolen with the Police
An insurance write off
A cloned car *
The unique HPI £30,000 Guarantee* means you're covered!

I dont know what company Jan did an HPI check with - but he might be covered by insurance, not that that is your problem. Do wot fanny says ^^^

The Mad Hat Man said:

according to HPI Check - Used Car History, Finance, Write Off & Vehicle Data.....

Only HPI covers you against buying:
A car with outstanding finance
A car reported as stolen with the Police
An insurance write off
A cloned car *
The unique HPI £30,000 Guarantee* means you're covered!

I dont know what company Jan did an HPI check with - but he might be covered by insurance, not that that is your problem. Do wot fanny says ^^^

Click to expand...

We agree then,
I won't be posting on this thread further for the moment as previously outlined.

If you do want to discuss privately after calling Consumer Direct it is easier if you send a pm with both MHM and myself as recipients-that way we both know what advice has been given.

Calm reasoned determination is the way to proceed, If possible unless specifically dealing with it at the time-try not to obsess over the situation-hard as it can be.

cheers guys. im not out to slag anyone off, i jus find it stupid how there is no law whatsoever that is in favour of the victim. I was refused a road tax refund too which takes the **** even tho i sent a cover letter explaining the whole situation and why i wanted a refund. i put 12months on it a week before it was seized.

i thought handling stolen good and selling stolen goods where a police matter
also if no joy call the wacth dog team make them aware what is happening out there they will tell you what you can do you will get what you want just takes time good luck

fanatic said:

We agree then.

Click to expand...

We do, more often than not .

Fanny/MHM - can i ask an idiot question?

Shouldn't the HPI check have picked up a VIN/Registration mis match?

If not, how would the police have identified it as stolen?

May be missing something, but presumably the only way the buyer has now found that the Landy is registered with a different reg plate to that which he bought it on, is if the VIN was wrong in the first place?

Station House said:

Fanny/MHM - can i ask an idiot question?

Shouldn't the HPI check have picked up a VIN/Registration mis match?

If not, how would the police have identified it as stolen?

May be missing something, but presumably the only way the buyer has now found that the Landy is registered with a different reg plate to that which he bought it on, is if the VIN was wrong in the first place?

Click to expand...

*STATION HOUSE-AS A GENERAL COMMENT, NOT RELATED TO THIS*

Text based services tend to cost considerably less, I have heard bad things about text services before.

My advice is check the background of the company before using them and check the terms.

Some only check if finance showing or reported stolen and are not as comprehensive.

The RAC for instance do three checks for £25
(£8.33 each), but you must put chassis number in before purchase.

Thanks fanny

Guess you get what you pay for - sad for OP

Sorry for going off thread slightly

tomroane2003 said:

Hi everyone, so........ finally iv got the result i was hoping for. After alot of research n relentlessness i got a letter back from the visa company confirming they are going to pay me back the full amount of £6330.29 under section 75 of the consumer credit act which covered me for consequential losses too.

If anyone ever needs any help with the same situation i was in, dont hesitate to drop me a line for a bit of guidance n what to do next.

thanks to everyone on here for helping me too


Tom

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