MSA General regulations

S

Steve Taylor

Guest

• Feb 3, 2006

• #1

HELP!

For the Mac4x4, for insurance purposes, we are asked to sign a
declaration we have read the MSA general regulations - I didn't even
know they had any. Does anyone have a copy I can read ? Or better still,
do they lay down miniumum rest periods ? Talk is of driving into the wee
smalls and covering 1000 miles in 2 days. Surely there have to be
minimum rest periods for the driver ?

Steve

 

P

Paul - xxx

Guest

• Feb 3, 2006

• #2

Steve Taylor came up with the following;:
> HELP!
>
> For the Mac4x4, for insurance purposes, we are asked to sign a
> declaration we have read the MSA general regulations - I didn't even
> know they had any. Does anyone have a copy I can read ? Or better still,
> do they lay down miniumum rest periods ? Talk is of driving into the wee
> smalls and covering 1000 miles in 2 days. Surely there have to be
> minimum rest periods for the driver ?

http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?chapter=269&rand=8707

http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentViewArticle.asp?article=2468&category=743

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
ebay 4608494471

 

S

Simon Isaacs

Guest

• Feb 3, 2006

• #3

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:58:05 +0000, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>HELP!
>
>For the Mac4x4, for insurance purposes, we are asked to sign a
>declaration we have read the MSA general regulations - I didn't even
>know they had any. Does anyone have a copy I can read ? Or better still,
>do they lay down miniumum rest periods ? Talk is of driving into the wee
>smalls and covering 1000 miles in 2 days. Surely there have to be
>minimum rest periods for the driver ?
>
>Steve

no resat periods by law for non commercial... Last year, we covered
just 500 miles, but not this year due to what we felt was bad
organisation and sevee compromises of safety....
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

 

S

Steve Taylor

Guest

• Feb 3, 2006

• #4

Simon Isaacs wrote:
> no resat periods by law for non commercial... Last year, we covered
> just 500 miles, but not this year due to what we felt was bad
> organisation and sevee compromises of safety....

That's crazy. Not by law maybe, but what about by insurers ? Are they
going to be happy about this ? How on earth can you be fit to drive
without a decent rest ? There is a lot of macho bull**** going on about
how "its all for chari-dee" and videos of how sleep deprived some people
were, and just how good it was to drive barely awake. I am seriously
unhappy about the safety aspects of this. The money raised will be
insignificant compared to the cost of a serious RTA involving a sleepy
driver of a 4x4. And the organisers give every appearance of having no
concern.

Trouble is, with monies received, and the wish to honour the memory of
my uncle, I can't back out.

Steve

 

S

Simon Isaacs

Guest

• Feb 3, 2006

• #5

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:42:21 +0000, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>Simon Isaacs wrote:
>> no resat periods by law for non commercial... Last year, we covered
>> just 500 miles, but not this year due to what we felt was bad
>> organisation and sevee compromises of safety....
>
>That's crazy. Not by law maybe, but what about by insurers ? Are they
>going to be happy about this ? How on earth can you be fit to drive
>without a decent rest ? There is a lot of macho bull**** going on about
>how "its all for chari-dee" and videos of how sleep deprived some people
>were, and just how good it was to drive barely awake. I am seriously
>unhappy about the safety aspects of this. The money raised will be
>insignificant compared to the cost of a serious RTA involving a sleepy
>driver of a 4x4. And the organisers give every appearance of having no
>concern.
>
>Trouble is, with monies received, and the wish to honour the memory of
>my uncle, I can't back out.
>
>Steve

hence the reason you have a co driver.....To share the driving, but
how much sleep can you get between stages when you have to nav between
them etc.......

we took part last year for the first time.... we thought about it for
this year, but we both so knackered decided our lives were more
important...

Our main gripe was 2 am, leaving a stage in 6 inches of snow (Crychan
Forest) and no one checking us out. In fact, no check was made until
Llandrindod Wells, about 30-40 mins drive later.... not safe IMHO A
check should have been on exit to identify any problems. I know of at
least 7 other people who are not taking part this year for the same
reason.......
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

 

L

Lee_D

Guest

• Feb 4, 2006

• #6

Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> Our main gripe was 2 am, leaving a stage in 6 inches of snow (Crychan
> Forest) and no one checking us out. In fact, no check was made until
> Llandrindod Wells, about 30-40 mins drive later.... not safe IMHO A
> check should have been on exit to identify any problems. I know of at
> least 7 other people who are not taking part this year for the same
> reason.......

How about an AFL run with Charidy, safety and fun built in?

Given the number of V8's and 101's perhaphs checkpoints could be near to
petrol stations ;-)

I got very excited about the thought of joining in but they were fully
booked. Perhaps as well looking at it now.

And your doing it in Bob Steve?

Would imagine a Lands end to John O Groates would be sufficient in a 101
taking in several fine brewerys on the route

The way thinks are going we could create a visible moving wall of colour
viewable from the moon!

It would have to be after the end of Feb for Tom to get his 101 back on line
though.....<ducks>

Lee


--
www.lrproject.com

 

S

Steve Taylor

Guest

• Feb 4, 2006

• #7

Lee_D wrote:
..
> How about an AFL run with Charidy, safety and fun built in?

Sounds like a much better idea.

> Given the number of V8's and 101's perhaphs checkpoints could be near to
> petrol stations ;-)

Charity begins...at the petrol station.
>
> I got very excited about the thought of joining in but they were fully
> booked. Perhaps as well looking at it now.
Take a look at the messages in their forum - just because its "all for
charity" isn't going to be any defence if something goes wrong.

> And your doing it in Bob Steve?

Yep, or I was, I am seriously unsure now. Bob was having new tyres and
everything.

Steve

 

S

Simon Isaacs

Guest

• Feb 4, 2006

• #8

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:11:03 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> scribbled the following
nonsense:

>Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>> Our main gripe was 2 am, leaving a stage in 6 inches of snow (Crychan
>> Forest) and no one checking us out. In fact, no check was made until
>> Llandrindod Wells, about 30-40 mins drive later.... not safe IMHO A
>> check should have been on exit to identify any problems. I know of at
>> least 7 other people who are not taking part this year for the same
>> reason.......
>
>How about an AFL run with Charidy, safety and fun built in?
>
>Given the number of V8's and 101's perhaphs checkpoints could be near to
>petrol stations ;-)
>
>I got very excited about the thought of joining in but they were fully
>booked. Perhaps as well looking at it now.
>
>And your doing it in Bob Steve?
>
>Would imagine a Lands end to John O Groates would be sufficient in a 101
>taking in several fine brewerys on the route
>
>The way thinks are going we could create a visible moving wall of colour
>viewable from the moon!
>
>It would have to be after the end of Feb for Tom to get his 101 back on line
>though.....<ducks>
>
>Lee

I'm in the process of cobbling some ideas together for 2007, unlikely
to be able to happen this year. Have access to several sites in
Norfolk and Cambs that will allow us to camp and do sensible driving
stuff. MSA insurance isa proving the sticking point at the moment....
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Feb 4, 2006

• #9

In message <[email protected]>
Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:11:03 -0000, "Lee_D"
> <[email protected]> scribbled the following
> nonsense:
>
> >Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> >> Our main gripe was 2 am, leaving a stage in 6 inches of snow (Crychan
> >> Forest) and no one checking us out. In fact, no check was made until
> >> Llandrindod Wells, about 30-40 mins drive later.... not safe IMHO A
> >> check should have been on exit to identify any problems. I know of at
> >> least 7 other people who are not taking part this year for the same
> >> reason.......
> >
> >How about an AFL run with Charidy, safety and fun built in?
> >
> >Given the number of V8's and 101's perhaphs checkpoints could be near to
> >petrol stations ;-)
> >
> >I got very excited about the thought of joining in but they were fully
> >booked. Perhaps as well looking at it now.
> >
> >And your doing it in Bob Steve?
> >
> >Would imagine a Lands end to John O Groates would be sufficient in a 101
> >taking in several fine brewerys on the route
> >
> >The way thinks are going we could create a visible moving wall of colour
> >viewable from the moon!
> >
> >It would have to be after the end of Feb for Tom to get his 101 back on line
> >though.....<ducks>
> >
> >Lee
>
> I'm in the process of cobbling some ideas together for 2007, unlikely
> to be able to happen this year. Have access to several sites in
> Norfolk and Cambs that will allow us to camp and do sensible driving
> stuff. MSA insurance isa proving the sticking point at the moment....

Isn't anyone in an ARC Competetive Club? Insurance is easy when it's
and "event".

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

S

Simon Isaacs

Guest

• Feb 4, 2006

• #10

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:51:37 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>In message <[email protected]>
> Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm in the process of cobbling some ideas together for 2007, unlikely
>> to be able to happen this year. Have access to several sites in
>> Norfolk and Cambs that will allow us to camp and do sensible driving
>> stuff. MSA insurance isa proving the sticking point at the moment....
>
>Isn't anyone in an ARC Competetive Club? Insurance is easy when it's
>and "event".
>
>Richard

yes, my club is msa affiliated, its just how we pitch it to the MSA
for getting the cover, the regs are complex.

--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Feb 4, 2006

• #11

In message <[email protected]>
Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:51:37 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:
>
> >In message <[email protected]>
> > Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I'm in the process of cobbling some ideas together for 2007, unlikely
> >> to be able to happen this year. Have access to several sites in
> >> Norfolk and Cambs that will allow us to camp and do sensible driving
> >> stuff. MSA insurance isa proving the sticking point at the moment....
> >
> >Isn't anyone in an ARC Competetive Club? Insurance is easy when it's
> >and "event".
> >
> >Richard
>
> yes, my club is msa affiliated, its just how we pitch it to the MSA
> for getting the cover, the regs are complex.
>

Just pitch it as a treasure hunt with one or more RTV's - it would
mean scruitneering at the RTV's, but that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Perhaps even as a Tyro if scruitineering is a problem.

Though thinking about it, everyone would have to be an ARC/MSA
club member - but then offering a "suck-it-and-see-and-when-you-
cancel-yourmembership-it-can-go-in-the-charidy-tin" membership
has been done before.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Feb 5, 2006

• #12

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:11:03 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It would have to be after the end of Feb for Tom to get his 101 back on line
>though.....<ducks>



Dad saw his garage floor for the first time in 9 months yesterday! -
my car now moves!!
As soon as i can drive that then i will stop getting earache and can
justify continuing on the 101...

 

M

Mother

Guest

• Feb 6, 2006

• #13

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:51:37 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Isn't anyone in an ARC Competetive Club? Insurance is easy when it's
>and "event".

No. There are non-competitive clubs (101 Club is non-competitive).
It's cheaper to affiliate and TBH, for clubs who do not generally
compete, going for the MSA part is a total waste of money.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

 

M

Mother

Guest

• Feb 6, 2006

• #14

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:51:59 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs <[email protected]>
wrote:

>MSA insurance isa proving the sticking point at the moment....

This implies planning a competitive event?

If this is the case, and involves any degree of pacemaking or timed
trial, all general insurance is invalid. Unless there are structured
processes, such as qualified Marshals, all conducted under MSA R&R,
and all participants are members of MSA affiliated clubs, organisation
is going to be a nightmare.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

 

L

Lee_D

Guest

• Feb 7, 2006

• #15

Tom Woods <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:11:03 -0000, "Lee_D"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It would have to be after the end of Feb for Tom to get his 101 back
>> on line though.....<ducks>
>
>
>
> Dad saw his garage floor for the first time in 9 months yesterday! -
> my car now moves!!
> As soon as i can drive that then i will stop getting earache and can
> justify continuing on the 101...

Your car moves? How many cars does one bloke want at one time? Last time I
looked there were three at your pad plus 101... you're not telling me there
are more are you?

Lame excuse!

;-)

Lee

 

S

Simon Isaacs

Guest

• Feb 7, 2006

• #16

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:02:50 +0000, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
scribbled the following nonsense:

>On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:51:59 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>MSA insurance isa proving the sticking point at the moment....
>
>This implies planning a competitive event?
>
>If this is the case, and involves any degree of pacemaking or timed
>trial, all general insurance is invalid. Unless there are structured
>processes, such as qualified Marshals, all conducted under MSA R&R,
>and all participants are members of MSA affiliated clubs, organisation
>is going to be a nightmare.

no part on the public highway is timed or subject to pacemaking. The
supplementary regs will tell all!
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....