Military 109

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J

JJ6

Member
Posts
20
Location
Banbury
Hi all,

I'm looking at buying a 109 and a couple of ex-military ones have come up. I'm a little confused about the history of one of them as it says it's was first registered in 1966 which I'm pretty sure would make it a 2a? This one I'm looking at has series 3 wing, grill and dash as well as a military chassis even though it was registered 3 years before even the transition 2a's came out. I can't tell if this is actually ex-MOD or someones just made it look that way? If anyone has any idea I'd really appreciate it!

Cheers,

Johnny
 
Lots of 'Series 2's' out there which obviously aren't...but sometimes someone could have just replaced the front end and the bulkhead as they could be knackered. Personally i wouldnt touch a 2a without a series 2a bulkead and front end as it could be dodgy and i dont like the look....but depends what you want it for.
 
Mingus said:
Lots of 'Series 2's' out there which obviously aren't...but sometimes someone could have just replaced the front end and the bulkhead as they could be knackered. Personally i wouldnt touch a 2a without a series 2a bulkead and front end as it could be dodgy and i dont like the look....but depends what you want it for.
Click to expand...
Agreed, a lot of Series 3s were ringed as 2As for their tax free status - not such a problem now as its 'rolling' again. It could be innocent, someone (back in the day) wanting to make their old out of date 2A look like a more 'modern' Series 3, or accident repair/corrosion issues but the clincher for me is, as Mingus says, is the bulkhead, if that isn't a 2A one then beware. Check to see if there are any 2A features on it at all, engine, gearbox, back axle (early 2A had a Rover back axle not a Salisbury one. Post some photos (we like photos) so we can all see what you're looking at.
 
Last edited:
I found this on the EMLRA website (courtesy of Wayne Davies)

"Rover 9 was 109” SIIA, 1961 to 1966 (Truck ¾ Ton)(FFR 24v negative earth.) The following only applied to Rovers 8 and 9: if they had the suffix “/1”, it meant they had the strengthened diff (Salisbury) and half-shafts on the rear axle. Suffix “/2” denoted that neither had been strengthened, in other words the normal civilian specification..."

So an ex MOD 109 could have or not have a Salisbury Diff depending on its suffix
 
wireman said:
So an ex MOD 109 could have or not have a Salisbury Diff depending on its suffix
Click to expand...

As usual landrover make things plain as mud....on top of that though I don't suppose the army took any notice of suffixes if they had repairs to do.
I only asked as I have a series 2a and a series 3 military chassis and they both have salisbury axles.
 
Back to the OP check all the facts you can i.e has it got a reg. no. , chassis number, vin plate etc.
If its ex-mil you can check its service number on a data base to get more info. There was a thread about that recently but can't remember where I saw it.
 
My 1970 Mil LWB has rover axles back and front, it was general purpose vehicle with some radio gear (but probaly not the full FFR), it has a mil chassis, strenghtened tub and Rover axles (with the mil reinforcing).
Re the vehicles you are looking at, absolutly agree with advice to avoid all "wrong" bulkheads, while there could be an innocent explantion the odds are against it and you could end up with a right mess. Several people have posted about s2s with S3 bulkheads and so far one had to be put on a q plate and the other appreared to have been stolen.
 
Thanks everyone for all the info, I'm quite new to this but thats cleared it up a lot. I'm sorry I didn't have any pictures this time but they both had the horrible black plastic dash, so definitely S3 bulkheads. I hadn't realised the bulkhead was such a main thing to base it on, I hadn't seen a bare s3 bulkhead and wrongly assumed under all the plastic the dash it was very similar to an S2a. I'd naively been basing it all off first date of registration and the wings and grill, not realising just how many sort of "half cars" had been put together to avoid tax. I'll look at the more solid evidence of axles, engines and gearbox from now on!
 
We're happy to help somone avoid getting scammed. In the 70s people would bolt S3 front end (wings grill) to make a S2 look more modern, they would not change the bulkhead as its huge amount of work. the Army would think nothing of fixing an S2 with S3 parts but again think front wings/grill only, and these are easy to revert to an S2. The problem comes later when s2 are tax exampt and most S3 are not, also S2 values were a lot higher, then people got a scrapped S2 plate/reg and put it on an S3, there quite a few of those turn up on e-bay. They never change the bulkead because its too much work. Avoid these as the S3 could also be stolen. Now S2 and many S3 are tax exempt and S2 and S3 values are pretty much the same, most are now 40-50 years old. Another problem is that the dodgy ones are often sold without an MOT as tax and MOT exempt, this means they look like they could be driven OK, but if they are really (say) a 1980s vehicle and this comes to light because the numbers don't match or the reg is off another vehicle you may fnd it really hard MOT/tax, insurence. Also now we are mostly driving on agreed value insurence which requires detailed info and photos, they will pick up if its a bitsa.
If you see one you like post a pic on here a people will give you an opinion. We had one recently that looked wrong, we aterted the person who posted, he went back to the seller who became very evasive and pretty much admitted it was a ringer.
 
Again thanks a lot I really appreciate it! I don't know if there are rules but is it ok to post a link to ebay/whichever site I see them on or do you guys prefer if I just pasted the pictures from the sale in?
 
From what you’ve all said these are 2 that appear to be more original.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/283678795442

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/223744023486

The first from the photos looks more together, but on a military chassis the second has quite a scabby bulkhead and who knows what underneath. From what I’ve seen over the last months quite a few like the second are being advertised for around £4000. S2as seem to be more popular and rarer so I guess can get the higher prices but with most looking like they need new chassis and bulkheads is £4000 in your opinions too much to be paying when it’ll need £1000’s on top, or just is that price just part of the territory?
 
Series 2's will be 'rarer' as they were made for a shorter period. Without the military id plates I don't think you could tell if they were ex mil or not, it may just be that a chassis change happened in the past and that is what they were put on.
It doesn't actually say on either listing that they are military does it?
The one you are talking about in your first post isn't either of these is it.....just re-read it.
 
JJ6 said:
Sorry the military one was this one

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/273789859025

I just thought from the info I read above that it was maybe best to move on and just find a more whole one like the previous two I posted as I was going to paint it original Land Rover colours and make it not military.
Click to expand...

I like the look of that one!
The trouble is with ex mil vehicles is the dates of registration might not match anything you might think that's logical..
If it was me I'd have a close look at it and see if the vin plates and army plates are on it (there should be one on the drivers side of the seat box and another one under the bonnet, maybe on the slam panel)....match that with the chassis number and take somebody along who's not emotionally attached to it for a second opinion.
 
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