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Freelander 1 Master Cylinder Slight Leak

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by onza120, Apr 7, 2021.

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  1. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Hi All,

    Freelander TD4 2005 SE

    So it happened again today with the clutch pedal going to floor and not getting in gear. Something which happened months ago and never happened again until today, There is a slight sign of leakage from where the clutch pedal pushes the rod into the Master Cylinder - is it possible to replace master and remove pipe from the push-fit and bleed or will I need to replace slave as-well?

    Also I've read a lot about these slave cylinder brackets - from what I can see this model the slave is buried I'm gearbox so the bracket doesn't exist, is this correct?

    There is an input and return pipe from slave cylinder- judging by the fact the return ends and goes no-where I'm assuming this is where we bleed the system, though have heard these are sealed systems?

    Any help would be appreciated, clutch works again and can get into gears no problem, but it's only a matter of time until this rears it's ugly head again.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You are confusing the PG1/K & L Series clutch hydraulics with the TD4's. The PG1 cars have the 1 piece sealed master & slave with the slave mounted on the side of the gearbox on a bracket.

    The TD4's is the separate master & slave (inside the bell housing). I don't know a lot about them - but the master cylinders can give problems, especially if you fit an aftermarket 1, there appears to be a lot of bad ones out there.
     
  3. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Thanks for the reply, yes I though as much.
     
  4. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Can anyone clarify if it's possible to add new MC and bleed?
     
  5. andyfreelandy

    andyfreelandy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, just done this. Clutch pedal to floor. Bleed using valve on end of slave which is the pipe end coming out of gearbox.

    Release the quick coupler by sliding the sleeve in and then pop the fitting off the pedal and turn master through 90 deg to release from bulkhead.

    Worth replacing the master first as it is easy to do but that didn't fix mine. Had to take gearbox out and replace slave and gearbox input shaft seal as oil was leaking in too.
    Have old slave in vice with pressure on hydraulics and, guess what, no leaks or loss of pressure now that it is out of the gearbox!!

    Still, put new clutch in while in there so good for a few years hopefully.
     
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  6. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Just about fed up with this - new master cylinder, pressure back bled, normal bleed about a dozen times but the clutch is still not right. When the clutch is engaged almost every time the pedal will stick and require lifting up and pressing down again before you can enter gear, almost like the slave is stuck to the clutch. Engine off the pedal feels great and returns correctly. Any help appreciated before I result in having to put this in the garage due to lack of time & patience!!!!
     
  7. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What brand of master cylinder did you buy?
     
  8. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Britpart. Messaged the seller who advised these are good parts and any issues is likely due to being bled incorrectly. Starting to wonder if there is any correct way of bleeding this system or does Land Rover perform a magic ritual when these come out of the assembly line?
     
  9. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well, it would be nice to have the confidence that the product was of decent quality, so a Shitpart, as they are generally known, does not inspire confidence. The only reference I can find on a search here for a Britpart master said that it lasted 4 months.

    However, if it is doing exactly the same as the original, then I suspect that is not the fault. I'm no expert on the TD4 clutch hydraulics, so I'd wait for advice, although it appears you're heading down the same route as @andyfreelandy
     
  10. andyfreelandy

    andyfreelandy Well-Known Member

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    Indeed!

    However, clutch slave in vice, master under pressure and left for several days.
    Won't fail now its not in the gearbox!!!

    Maybe it is frightened of the dark!!
     
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  11. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Well guess it really is (****part) put old "leaky" MC back on and it's 10x better (drivable) except reverse gear seems to cause pedal to sink. Will do another reverse bleed with old MC to see if helps. Can anyone recommend a MC as I can't seem to find genuine & the closest I can see is "SACHS Clutch Master Cylinder"

    thanks
     
  12. Alibro

    Alibro Well-Known Member

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    I used a cheap(ish) aftermarket Master Cylinder and regretted ever after as I couldn't get the bite point off the floor. SWMBO never noticed it so as she was driving the car 99% of the time I didn't do anything about it.
    I don't know what the OEM make is but maybe worth checking from your local LR dealer. Rimmer Bros might have good ones too.
     
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  13. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Have brough a LUK MC so we'll see how it goes. Spoke to a garage and the nice chap advised though the MC isn't leaking it could still be losing pressure past the piston as a form of internal leak.

    This would explain why I can get in and out of get no problem, but the moment I have to hold the pedal down for a period of time it gets stuck, as slowly the pressure is being released and the clutch is engaging which is exactly what happens.

    Fingers crossed this MC fixes it otherwise it could also be the DMF as it apparently has a spring which returns away from clutch and could be sticking or something along those lines...
     
  14. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    The DMF won't affect the clutch hydraulics.
     
  15. Alibro

    Alibro Well-Known Member

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    The MC I got came in a Britpart box and although it worked the bite point was always on the floor so I have no faith in them. If I were a betting man I'd say the one you received had been on a shelf for the last ten years and the seals had dried up. Hopefully you'll have better luck with LUK. :p
     
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  16. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Can you elaborate Nodge?
     
  17. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    In what way?
    The DMF is just a flywheel, but is made in two sections (Duel Masses), one section is bolted to the crankshaft. The other section is on the output, and is where the clutch is connected.
    The duel masses are kept concentric on a tight fitting bush, which allows the two masses to move independently of each other, a few degrees one way or the other. The movement is restricted by some strong springs, which are very similar in function as the springs in a clutch plate.
    The idea of the duel masses is to dampen out torsional vibration from the flywheel, so helping the gearbox last a bit longer, and reducing driveline vibration at the same time.

    The DMF has absolutely no bearing on the clutch hydraulic assembly, and won't give a low pedal.

    The only thing that a DMF can do is make a rattle at idle, if the springs are very worn, and can also create snatching as the clutch bites, again only when the DMF is worn.

    Your issue is with the hydraulics, and nothing to do with the DMF.
     
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  18. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    Thanks for the info. I meant in a nice way as I know you're a bucket of knowledge along with others on here.
     
  19. andyfreelandy

    andyfreelandy Well-Known Member

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    Incidentally, my old master and slave that I have on test with the master compressed hard and the slave in a vice has not failed after a week of compressed testing !!

    What is it with these TD4 clutch hydraulics - mystery to me.

    I think I conclude that repeated pressing is inducing air in some way but the seals are not leaking fluid under pressure.
     
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  20. onza120

    onza120 Member

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    I would too like to know Andy as it's a very frustrating issue to have and I'm sure there's people who have replaced both Slave & Master and still had clutch pedal issues.
     
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