LR3 Opinions.

Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to examine the
interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? We're looking at the
Volkswagen Toureag V8 and the Volvo XC90 T6, and had skipped LR because we
found the Disco unappealing. I'm wondering if the LR3 merits a trip to the
dealer. Also, I notice that Land Rover's website only lists the 4.4 litre V8
powered model. Wasn't there a six-cylinder coming too? We're in North America
so the diesel variants of Europe never make it here.
Steve Grauman

In <[email protected]> Steve Grauman wrote:
> Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to
> examine the interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery?
> We're looking at the Volkswagen Toureag V8 and the Volvo XC90 T6, and
> had skipped LR because we found the Disco unappealing. I'm wondering
> if the LR3 merits a trip to the dealer. Also, I notice that Land
> Rover's website only lists the 4.4 litre V8 powered model. Wasn't
> there a six-cylinder coming too? We're in North America so the diesel
> variants of Europe never make it here. Steve Grauman

It's sad IMHO that you consider the 3 vehicles to be in the same class.
I guess that's marketing for you though - I'm not sure whose though !

The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised
suspension and 4 wheel drive added. If that's what you want then you
should be looking at Freelanders not a Discovery 3. The Discovery 3 (or
LR3 as the yanks are calling it) is an extremely capable vehicle that
matches exceptional off road ability with comfort and luxury. The
interior is OK for a modern car although I'm not keen on the body
styling but as you are considering a vulva I guess body styling isn't
high on your list of priorities

Personally I wouldn't touch one of the new Discoveries with a barge pole
until it's at least a year further down the line in "customer led
development". By that time they should have all the bugs ironed out of
it. Very few people in the UK have road tested the Disco 3, primarily
because they've been having problems keeping one of them running for
long enough. The Land Rover Experience off road training on the vehicle
has, according to rumour, been postponed and there were alledgedly 6
broken down Disco 3s scattered between Solihull and Glasgow last week
when they tried to get a working one up to Scotland for a dealer launch.
The reasoning behind the LR3 badge in the US is that the Discovery name
has a bit of a bad reputation so the marketing chaps at Solihull thought
it a good wheeze to launch it as the LR3 on the grounds that the yanks
wouldn't figure out it was a Discovery until after they'd bought it ! It
seems that buying a "new" car these days is like buying new major
versions of computer software - best to wait for V3.11 to come along
before you upgrade from V2.35.

If you can afford one, look at the Range Rover, it's a well put together
vehicle with a good reliablity record. If you can't afford a Range Rover,
take a look at a Subaru Legacy Outback (if you can get them in the USA ???).
It's a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing both in on road and off road
performance. If you want a superb off roader with a reasonable level of
comfort then take another look at the Disco 2. There should be some good
deals aroudn on these as the "outgoing" model.

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

"Dave White" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
message de news: [email protected]...
> In <[email protected]> Steve Grauman wrote:
> > Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to
> > examine the interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery?
> > We're looking at the Volkswagen Toureag V8 and the Volvo XC90 T6, and
> > had skipped LR because we found the Disco unappealing. I'm wondering
> > if the LR3 merits a trip to the dealer. Also, I notice that Land
> > Rover's website only lists the 4.4 litre V8 powered model. Wasn't
> > there a six-cylinder coming too? We're in North America so the diesel
> > variants of Europe never make it here. Steve Grauman
>
> It's sad IMHO that you consider the 3 vehicles to be in the same class.
> I guess that's marketing for you though - I'm not sure whose though !
>
> The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised
> suspension and 4 wheel drive added. If that's what you want then you
> should be looking at Freelanders not a Discovery 3. The Discovery 3 (or
> LR3 as the yanks are calling it) is an extremely capable vehicle that
> matches exceptional off road ability with comfort and luxury. The
> interior is OK for a modern car although I'm not keen on the body
> styling but as you are considering a vulva I guess body styling isn't
> high on your list of priorities
>
<SNIP>
> cheers
>
> Dave W.
> http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/


Damn are you hard on the other brands !
I agree with you on the XC90 - although I find it good looking. It's hardly
a SUV, and not at all an OffRoader.
The Touareg is more a climber than the Volvo (vulva and toerag ! LOL) but
IMO does not worth the money. It already has seen some reliability problems.
The Disco 3 (or LR3 like the guys at the other side of the pond say) looks a
lot better in terms of Off Road capacities, according to every story that
I'v read. Some say it can beat a Defender. (I'll have to say don't quote me
on this one...)
I only had a chance to sit in a HSE 7-Seater, so I don't know for the
reliability, but there sure is some space for the wife and kids. But having
had a 95' range P38, I'd be cautious with a brand new model and reliability.
What you say here is appaling.
So, Steve, what is the main use you'll have with this new vehicle ? In the
price range, you have a large choice, inlcuding the AUDI Allroad, the Grand
Cherokee, the New Range Rover (you can find some used...) and the needs you
have should help you sort the car.
For the Offroad, I'd say LR3 or grand Cherokee.
If it's only to climb some mud, the Allroad and XC90 should do.
If you can gather the money, the New Range is a blast, and if you have even
more money, you can buy the former Range!!
The V6 for the LR3 is the diesel engine.
Stay away from the Tuareg for at least a year. They'll probably have a new
version very quickly, that will be less prone to reliabilty problems.
HTH
--
Henry!
--
"Pleasure in a thing of beauty is the essence of a good life."
Zino Davidoff

[email protected] (Steve Grauman) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to examine the
> interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? We're looking at the
> Volkswagen Toureag V8 and the Volvo XC90 T6, and had skipped LR because we
> found the Disco unappealing. I'm wondering if the LR3 merits a trip to the
> dealer. Also, I notice that Land Rover's website only lists the 4.4 litre V8
> powered model. Wasn't there a six-cylinder coming too? We're in North America
> so the diesel variants of Europe never make it here.
> Steve Grauman

The new vehicle is known as the LR3 in the USA and the Discovery 3
here in the UK. On first reports it is a completely new vehicle
compared to the Series 2 Disco. You're asking if it's worth a look -
well, obviously yes - see the title of this NG ;-)

If you are looking at the VW and Volvo as well, I'm guessing that
off-road ability is not top of your shopping list, in which case the
LR is probably too much off-road star and not enough highway cruiser
for your tastes and needs.

The LR has Terrain Response, which is supposed to be able to turn a
city futures trader into an expert off-road driver at the flick of a
cheque-book. My guess is that it will let morons get even further off
tarmac before they get it stuck.

Yeah, go on, give it a look. The dealer isn't that far away, is it?

JM2cW

Rich

Series 2a SWB
RR 4.6 HSE
Stuff

On or around Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:46:29 +0000 (UTC), Dave White
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised
>suspension and 4 wheel drive added.

WRT the touareg, I reckon you're talking bollox. It's not in the same
league as the LR, necessarily, but it isn't just a jacked up saloon with 4x4
either. It and the Porsche Cayenne (same platform) are in fact apparently
seriously capable vehicles. Not to my tatse, admittedly...

and in fact, I saw an volvo XC today, and it's got a very uncluttered
underside and summat like 8" ground clearance, which is no less than the
diff clearance on a typical live-axle LR.

I reckon the touareg is about in the same league as the latest Range Rover,
meself.

Mind, reading the report on the LR3 in LROI recently, it's one hellova piece
of kit, provided all those electronics keep working.

Not sure they've done a V6 petrol yet. There might be plans for one. The
V6 I've heard about is the diesel one.

Well there's capable vehicles and theres capable vehicles, I am sure an old
Fergie tractor can go places on surfaces even a series landie cannot, Its
all horses for courses.

As for longevity and staying powere of these newer 4x4's only time will
tell, but as far as old landies go, you see more of them about than any
other vehicle of there age, and as everyday transport as well, not cosseted
classics.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes




"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:46:29 +0000 (UTC), Dave White
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
> WRT the touareg, I reckon you're talking bollox. It's not in the same
> league as the LR, necessarily, but it isn't just a jacked up saloon with
4x4
> either. It and the Porsche Cayenne (same platform) are in fact apparently
> seriously capable vehicles. Not to my tatse, admittedly...
>
> and in fact, I saw an volvo XC today, and it's got a very uncluttered
> underside and summat like 8" ground clearance, which is no less than the
> diff clearance on a typical live-axle LR.
>
> I reckon the touareg is about in the same league as the latest Range
Rover,
> meself.
>
> Mind, reading the report on the LR3 in LROI recently, it's one hellova
piece
> of kit, provided all those electronics keep working.
>
> Not sure they've done a V6 petrol yet. There might be plans for one. The
> V6 I've heard about is the diesel one.
>

[email protected] (Richard Brookman) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Steve Grauman) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to examine the
> > interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? We're looking at the
> > Volkswagen Toureag V8 and the Volvo XC90 T6, and had skipped LR because we
> > found the Disco unappealing. I'm wondering if the LR3 merits a trip to the
> > dealer. Also, I notice that Land Rover's website only lists the 4.4 litre V8
> > powered model. Wasn't there a six-cylinder coming too? We're in North America
> > so the diesel variants of Europe never make it here.
> > Steve Grauman
>
> The new vehicle is known as the LR3 in the USA and the Discovery 3
> here in the UK. On first reports it is a completely new vehicle
> compared to the Series 2 Disco. You're asking if it's worth a look -
> well, obviously yes - see the title of this NG ;-)
>
> If you are looking at the VW and Volvo as well, I'm guessing that
> off-road ability is not top of your shopping list, in which case the
> LR is probably too much off-road star and not enough highway cruiser
> for your tastes and needs.
>
> The LR has Terrain Response, which is supposed to be able to turn a
> city futures trader into an expert off-road driver at the flick of a
> cheque-book. My guess is that it will let morons get even further off
> tarmac before they get it stuck.
>
> Yeah, go on, give it a look. The dealer isn't that far away, is it?
>
> JM2cW
>
> Rich
>
> Series 2a SWB
> RR 4.6 HSE
> Stuff

I thought i didn't like the Disco3 but its grown on me. Still think
that they forgot to design the back though! I seem to remember reading
a review on it that the designers didn't add any design cues that were
not needed. Stuff like air intake grille only on one side because it
only needs one, not like on the new Rangie. Its got plenty of cool
features though, the one I really liked was the remote locking battery
in the key charges up as soon as you put the key in the ignition, how
cool is that!?
The boss has just taken delivery of his new Range Rover, bloody
lovely too. Lots of toys such as a diplay on the LCD screen that tells
you which way the wheels are pointing and how far the wheels are
moving up and down. Also "venture cam" (best said with American
accent) which is a wire free camera that displays its picture in the
vehicle. I think it's supposed to be for hitching up but I can see it
being used for lots of other uses!
I wonder if the new diso's technology makes the Rangie seem a
little out of date (especially with terrain response)but the Rangie
still looks the better vehicle.
As far as i'm concerned, as long as the don't mess up the new
Defender, I don't care what they do with the Disco! I hope the rumours
of basing the new vehicle on the T5 platform that the Disco sits on
are unfounded.

Dave

>The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised
>suspension and 4 wheel drive added

That's actually not entirely true. The Volvo is based on the S80 car platform
but the Toureag's chassis is unique and not VW or Audi car based. It's also got
a low range transfer case which the Volvo and other car-based SUVs lack. I've
seen some impressive off-road test video of the Toureag, although off-road
ability isn't our primary concern.

>The Discovery 3 (or
>LR3 as the yanks are calling it) is an extremely capable vehicle that
>matches exceptional off road ability with comfort and luxury

I'm not sure that it's a match for the LR, but you might be surprised what the
Toureag/Cayenne are capable of off-road. But as I said, this isn't our primary
concern. We have a year-old 4Runner here which is more than competant for the
off-roading we do.

>I'm not keen on the body
>styling but as you are considering a vulva I guess body styling isn't
>high on your list of priorities
>

To each his own. The XC90 isn't horrible looking.

>Personally I wouldn't touch one of the new Discoveries with a barge pole
>until it's at least a year further down the line in "customer led
>development".

I tend to agree. We knew people with Discos that had endless problems. I was
hoping that the LR3 would be better, considering as it was designed under
Ford's ownership...I guess not.

>If you can't afford a Range Rover,
>take a look at a Subaru Legacy Outback (if you can get them in the USA ???).

Yes, we have them here. And we've looked at the brand new Legacy and Outback as
well as the Forester XT. Nice enough, I guess. But not nearly the same quality
level as the VW. Plus they lack the higher seating position.

>It's a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing both in on road and off road
>performance

Considering that those are cars, not SUVs and that they lack high ground
clearence and low-range transfer cases I'm not sure why you think they'd be any
better off road than the VW or Volvo.

>If you want a superb off roader with a reasonable level of
>comfort then take another look at the Disco 2.

No thanks. If we wanted something large and unreliable there are plenty of less
expensive options.
Steve Grauman

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:18:13 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:46:29 +0000 (UTC), Dave White
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised
>>suspension and 4 wheel drive added.
>
>WRT the touareg, I reckon you're talking bollox. It's not in the same
>league as the LR, necessarily, but it isn't just a jacked up saloon with 4x4
>either. It and the Porsche Cayenne (same platform) are in fact apparently
>seriously capable vehicles. Not to my tatse, admittedly...
>

Toerag is allegedly very good off-road, and has options for locking
axle diffs IIRC.

Recently went round an off-road course at Slaley Hall. Pretty dry and
tame and it was only on the last climb that I noticed that the driver
hadn't even locked the diff on the 110. The tyres were about bald
too, and it didn't struggle.

However Porsche had used the course to host an event for potential
Cayenne customers. The course had, apparently, been much wetter and
the Cayenne walked round, albeit on ATish tyres rather than road ones.
The instructor I was with was very impressed with it in the hands of
the Porsche demo driver.

Oh, and apparently it was also completely buggered bodywork wise by
the end of the event!

The Volvo seems pretty pointless to me (and I like Volvos). It's a
very well constructed vehicle and has all the brilliant ergonomics
that my V70 has. But I don't see why it is useful to anyone over the
AWD version of the V70.

Each to his own, and the important thing is for buyers not to kid
themselves about their off-road aspirations. If you want a 'style'
SUV then the last Discovery was probably not the best vehicle to own.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

> As far as i'm concerned, as long as the don't mess up the new
>Defender, I don't care what they do with the Disco! I hope the rumours
>of basing the new vehicle on the T5 platform that the Disco sits on
>are unfounded.
>

It's called T5 as it was originally planned to host 5 different
vehicles.

What's wrong with using it for the Defender replacement? 'Proper'
separate chassis. Not sure how 'modular' they can make it, but a
separate chassis is a good start.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

>So, Steve, what is the main use you'll have with this new vehicle ?

It's really for my mother. She needs something large enough to haul groceries
in and to (occasionally) be used to take our 2 dogs. I had her look at wagons
(the Audi Allroad and A4 and A6 Avant, Volvo S60 T5, BMW 3 and 5 series
wagons...) but she likes the higher seating position of the SUVs. It doesn't
NEED to be a super-off roader but we want it to be competant enough for minor
off-pavement stints. However we do have a 2003 4Runner that's more than
competant off-road for when we need it. She currently has a Lexus RX300 and
isn't real keen on the newer RX330, and since the Toyota Highlander is
essentially the same vehicle, we aren't bothering with it. She doesn't want a
second 4Runner (she thinks we should vary a little bit) and the Sequioa is to
large for her. And she didn't like the new BMW X3 or X5 very much, nor the
Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy, nor the Subaru Forester XT. So far she really
likes the Cayenne/Toureag the best, with the XC90 a close second. We are going
tomorrow to test drive a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee (with the Hemi!) and to find
out when the all-new 2005 Pathfinders will arrive so we can see one in "the
flesh". I was just wondering if we should bother to look at the LR3 while we're
at the auto-mall.
Steve Grauman

>Yeah, go on, give it a look. The dealer isn't that far away, is it?

No, not particularly. I think you're right. ;-)
Steve Grauman

>Also "venture cam" (best said with American
>accent)

LOL! I hope you guys are better than me in that area. I can't sound British for
the life of me. I always come out sounding Irish when I try, or like a Pikey.
Steve Grauman

In <[email protected]> Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:46:29 +0000 (UTC), Dave White
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly
>>raised suspension and 4 wheel drive added.
>
> WRT the touareg, I reckon you're talking bollox. It's not in the same
> league as the LR, necessarily, but it isn't just a jacked up saloon
> with 4x4 either. It and the Porsche Cayenne (same platform) are in
> fact apparently seriously capable vehicles. Not to my tatse,
> admittedly...

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one then although me talking
bollox is not a completely alien concept

By some HUGE coincidence I was watching a home video this evening taken
on some green lanes in the Lake District last weekend. For no reason
other than it was a "drive your daily transport" kind of a weekend there
were 5 vehicles....

A VW Touareg, a Mercedes M Class, A Jeep Grannd Cherokee (old style) a
Foers Ibex and a 90. When watching all of them descending a pitifully
easy series of rock steps the Touareg and the M class were both very
similar in the way they handled. Very stiff suspension leading to the
constant lifting of wheels and horrible grating sounds as the centre of
the vehicle grounded out on every step. No matter what line they took or
how they drove it (and there was a LOT of ****ing about piling up rocks
and so on) they were getting hung up on every step. The Jeep, the Ibex
and the 90 drove down it without even thinking about it. These steps
weren't a lot worse than the ones you'd get on a flight of stairs BTW.
Unfortunately there wasn't a Porsche or a Volvo there to compare them
with.

To my mind there are a whole raft of cars that have 4wd capability,
including the Freelander, the Touareg and the Cayenne. They are great on
wet grass but off roaders thay ain't. Cars with 4wd is what they are and
cars with 4wd is all they will ever be. The upside of this is that they
are great on the road (compared to any of my vehicles anyway)... the
downside being they are "limited" on the road. A racing slick has almost
all the same properties as a mud tyre, it's round, black, has a hole in
the middle etc... but I know which I'd rather have in the middle of a
mud run !

The only people who would describe any of these vehicles as "seriously
capable vehicles" are those selling them or those who have bought them.
Unless, of course, they are referring to their ability to climb kerbs or
cross grass verges.

It is probably also fair to point out that the Ibex driver managed to
put his vehicle on it's side on the day but he claimed to have fallen
asleep waiting for the VW and the Merc to inch their way down the gravel
track and tried a more "interesting" approach to relieve the boredom

ps If any Touareg drivers out there fancy competing against me at the
next club trial or the next challenge event (Ireland, weekend after next)
feel free to try and make me eat my words !

Anyway, what was the original question again ???

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

I work at a dealer in NY. We got our first LR3 yesterday. $50,550.
With about 40 people waiting for them, it hasn't shut off since. It's
laid out well, the seating is far better than the previous
Discoveries. There will be plenty of room for groceries and dogs. An
adult can actually sit in the rear seat as well, it has a footwell.
(3rd row seat.)
Standard and only engine is the 300hp 4.4 here. It not only has
more power than previous Discos, but it gets better fuel economy. Not
much better, but better. After two days of constant driving, it has
shown no issues of any kind. I have no ideas of mom's abilities or
health, but entry and operation are pretty easy.
The warranty is 4 years, 50K miles. It's new, and Ford is involved
now. We're not sure what that means. The new Range Rover is proving
itself to be quite reliable so far, with the exception of minor
annoyances. Busted cupholders and various plastic bits. We've yet to
have any major failures on a new Range. That's a BMW thing, though,
from inception to construction.

On 14 Oct 2004 06:56:23 GMT, [email protected] (Steve Grauman) wrote:

>Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to examine the
>interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? We're looking at the
>Volkswagen Toureag V8 and the Volvo XC90 T6, and had skipped LR because we
>found the Disco unappealing. I'm wondering if the LR3 merits a trip to the
>dealer. Also, I notice that Land Rover's website only lists the 4.4 litre V8
>powered model. Wasn't there a six-cylinder coming too? We're in North America
>so the diesel variants of Europe never make it here.
>Steve Grauman

Dave White wrote:
> In <[email protected]> Austin Shackles
> wrote:
>> On or around Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:46:29 +0000 (UTC), Dave White
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>> The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly
>>> raised suspension and 4 wheel drive added.
>>
>> WRT the touareg, I reckon you're talking bollox. It's not in the
>> same league as the LR, necessarily, but it isn't just a jacked up
>> saloon with 4x4 either. It and the Porsche Cayenne (same platform)
>> are in fact apparently seriously capable vehicles. Not to my
tatse,
>> admittedly...
>
> We'll have to agree to disagree on that one then although me talking
> bollox is not a completely alien concept
>
> By some HUGE coincidence I was watching a home video this evening
> taken on some green lanes in the Lake District last weekend. For no
> reason other than it was a "drive your daily transport" kind of a
> weekend there were 5 vehicles....
>
> A VW Touareg, a Mercedes M Class, A Jeep Grannd Cherokee (old style)
a
> Foers Ibex and a 90. When watching all of them descending a
pitifully
> easy series of rock steps the Touareg and the M class were both very
> similar in the way they handled. Very stiff suspension leading to
the
> constant lifting of wheels and horrible grating sounds as the centre
> of the vehicle grounded out on every step. No matter what line they
> took or how they drove it (and there was a LOT of ****ing about
> piling up rocks and so on) they were getting hung up on every step.
> The Jeep, the Ibex and the 90 drove down it without even thinking
> about it. These steps weren't a lot worse than the ones you'd get on
> a flight of stairs BTW. Unfortunately there wasn't a Porsche or a
> Volvo there to compare them with.
>
> To my mind there are a whole raft of cars that have 4wd capability,
> including the Freelander, the Touareg and the Cayenne. They are
great
> on wet grass but off roaders thay ain't. Cars with 4wd is what they
> are and cars with 4wd is all they will ever be. The upside of this
is
> that they are great on the road (compared to any of my vehicles
> anyway)... the downside being they are "limited" on the road. A
> racing slick has almost all the same properties as a mud tyre, it's
> round, black, has a hole in the middle etc... but I know which I'd
> rather have in the middle of a mud run !
>
> The only people who would describe any of these vehicles as
"seriously
> capable vehicles" are those selling them or those who have bought
> them. Unless, of course, they are referring to their ability to
climb
> kerbs or cross grass verges.
>
> It is probably also fair to point out that the Ibex driver managed
to
> put his vehicle on it's side on the day but he claimed to have
fallen
> asleep waiting for the VW and the Merc to inch their way down the
> gravel track and tried a more "interesting" approach to relieve the
> boredom
>
> ps If any Touareg drivers out there fancy competing against me at
the
> next club trial or the next challenge event (Ireland, weekend after
> next) feel free to try and make me eat my words !
>

The point is that 99.9% of people have absolutely no intention of
putting their vehicle through a club trial though they might expect to
complete regular farm work or site work perhaps. For this kind of work
the Volvo Mercedes and VW are certainly capable as long as their
drivers avoid places where clearance could be an issue. This is easily
done. Good drivers always drive their Land Rover or any vehicle
*around* an obsticle not through it, when there is a choice, as there
mostly always is.

Huw


---
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RNS wrote:
The new Range Rover is proving
> itself to be quite reliable so far, with the exception of minor
> annoyances. Busted cupholders and various plastic bits. We've yet
to
> have any major failures on a new Range. That's a BMW thing, though,
> from inception to construction.
>

I am glad to hear this. Did you know that they have recently changed
to fibre optic wiring for the 2005 model? Next Spring you will find
the Jaguar V8, as in LR3, taking over from the BMW unit.

Huw


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On or around 14 Oct 2004 22:31:49 GMT, [email protected] (Steve Grauman)
enlightened us thusly:

>So far she really
>likes the Cayenne/Toureag the best,

I have to admit, that if I had unlimited funds, I'd buy a Cayenne (with
sports tuning pack) just for the hell of it.

I could put it in the garage alongside the new Rangie and then decide which
one to go and play in.

meanwhile, back in the real world...

LR3.
Given the prices, you'd better go for a vehicle with real OffRoad
capacities, along good comfort on the tarmac. Plenty of space, and the trunk
is so big you can fit two grown men.
But there also is the new Lexus RX400h, with hybrid engine. Supposed to be
far better than the 300 or 330.
--
Henry!
--
"Pleasure in a thing of beauty is the essence of a good life."
Zino Davidoff


"Steve Grauman" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> >So, Steve, what is the main use you'll have with this new vehicle ?
>
> It's really for my mother. She needs something large enough to haul
groceries
> in and to (occasionally) be used to take our 2 dogs. I had her look at
wagons
> (the Audi Allroad and A4 and A6 Avant, Volvo S60 T5, BMW 3 and 5 series
> wagons...) but she likes the higher seating position of the SUVs. It
doesn't
> NEED to be a super-off roader but we want it to be competant enough for
minor
> off-pavement stints. However we do have a 2003 4Runner that's more than
> competant off-road for when we need it. She currently has a Lexus RX300
and
> isn't real keen on the newer RX330, and since the Toyota Highlander is
> essentially the same vehicle, we aren't bothering with it. She doesn't
want a
> second 4Runner (she thinks we should vary a little bit) and the Sequioa is
to
> large for her. And she didn't like the new BMW X3 or X5 very much, nor the
> Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy, nor the Subaru Forester XT. So far she really
> likes the Cayenne/Toureag the best, with the XC90 a close second. We are
going
> tomorrow to test drive a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee (with the Hemi!) and to
find
> out when the all-new 2005 Pathfinders will arrive so we can see one in
"the
> flesh". I was just wondering if we should bother to look at the LR3 while
we're
> at the auto-mall.
> Steve Grauman

[email protected] (Steve Grauman) wrote
> >If you want a superb off roader with a reasonable level of
> >comfort then take another look at the Disco 2.
>
> No thanks. If we wanted something large and unreliable there are plenty of less expensive options.

My wife said something similar about me the other day. Cutting.

Rich