LPG injection for diesels

T

Tony

Guest

• Aug 10, 2006

• #1

Anyone know any webs site with info about this, apparently instant bhp boost
with no additonal stress, even apparently better for engine?


Tony

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 10, 2006

• #2

On or around Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:41:59 GMT, "Tony" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Anyone know any webs site with info about this, apparently instant bhp boost
>with no additonal stress, even apparently better for engine?
>

and instant explosion if you get it wrong.

have a look for "fumigating diesel engines". People have done it - but bear
in mind that if you extract say 150BHP or more from an engine designed to
make 110BHP, you're putting a lot more strain on it.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

 

R

Roger

Guest

• Aug 10, 2006

• #3

"Tony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone know any webs site with info about this, apparently instant bhp
boost
> with no additonal stress, even apparently better for engine?
>
>
> Tony
>
>
Welsh Tec (sp?) has a multi fuel system which uses the vacuum in the
manifold to draw small amounts of propane to mix with the air and
diesel, claims of increased power and reduced fuel consumption.
They suggest modifiying the throttle to keep the fuel economy gains.

The one downside that I was warned of - the piston crowns can
be burnt and melt under extended use on auto LPG mixes of
propane and butane. With that news I cancelled my dreams of my
SIIA burning off Ferraris at the traffic lights!

Do a weblookup on natural gas powered buses - 1,000s of those
operating around the world based on diesel engines.

 

S

steve

Guest

• Aug 10, 2006

• #4

Tony wrote:
> Anyone know any webs site with info about this, apparently instant bhp boost
> with no additonal stress, even apparently better for engine?
>
>
> Tony
>
>
I think allisport did a system.

Steve

 

T

TF

Guest

• Aug 11, 2006

• #5

Try an Aussie site for details: www.dieselgas.com.au they have
developed a system produced by http://www.lovato-autogas.com.au/ I am about
to get it added to my '88 RR Tdi300 mainly for clean burn characteristics,
but will give me a little better economy and more torque, and increase my
range (important here!).

Michael T Aussie '88 RR Tdi300 Auto
"Tony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone know any webs site with info about this, apparently instant bhp
> boost with no additonal stress, even apparently better for engine?
>
>
> Tony
>
>

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Aug 12, 2006

• #6

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:41:59 GMT, "Tony" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Anyone know any webs site with info about this, apparently instant bhp boost
>with no additonal stress, even apparently better for engine?
>
i dont think there is any info on the website, but i think that one of
the guys who runs car gas LPG converters in stoke
(http://www.car-gas.co.uk/) has done it on his diesel camel disco. I
think there was an article in one of the landy mags covering what he
did too.

 

R

Richard

Guest

• Aug 12, 2006

• #7

I know of a Dutch company that wanted to do conversions. For the
reasons already mentioned in this thread: fuel economy, emissions etc.
LPG to diesel ratio would vary depending on engine load, from sth like
5% min to 30%max. Dutch law however prevents conversions on the
grounds, if I understood correctly, that cars are not allowed to use
two different kinds of fuel *at the same time*. Petrol and LPG are not
a problem, because petrol engines run on either LPG or petrol, never
LPG and petrol at the same time. British law differs from ours in this
respect, I gather. The company - Iwema, Eindhoven - was not able to
persuade the Ministry of Transport to approve of an experiment.

See for yourself:
http://www.iwemalpg.com/Diesel_LPG.htm [pages in English]. Don't forget
the Link-page with links to Chris Perfect, Gordon Finlay (both UK) and
customer reviews.

In ancient times, when I was still a busdriver for the regional
transport company, I drove buses with diesel engines converted tot
running on natural gas (not LPG!). The experiment failed due to (very)
high costs of maintenance.

Richard

Tony wrote:
> Anyone know any webs site with info about this, apparently instant bhp boost
> with no additonal stress, even apparently better for engine?
>
>
> Tony

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 12, 2006

• #8

Richard wrote:

> In ancient times, when I was still a busdriver for the regional
> transport company, I drove buses with diesel engines converted tot
> running on natural gas (not LPG!). The experiment failed due to (very)
> high costs of maintenance.

They got that formula right here and used them for a long time.

--
EMB

 

A

Alex

Guest

• Aug 12, 2006

• #9

>
>In ancient times, when I was still a busdriver for the regional
>transport company, I drove buses with diesel engines converted tot
>running on natural gas (not LPG!). The experiment failed due to (very)
>high costs of maintenance.
>

Arriva Watford had a fleet of gas-powered buses, they were so
uneconimical both in terms of performance and maintentance costs, not
to mention chronic problems with engines due to them running a lot
hotter on gas, that they have now converted the fleet back DERV.

Alex

 

A

AJH

Guest

• Aug 12, 2006

• #10

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:25:34 +0100, Alex <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Arriva Watford had a fleet of gas-powered buses, they were so
>uneconimical both in terms of performance and maintentance costs, not
>to mention chronic problems with engines due to them running a lot
>hotter on gas, that they have now converted the fleet back DERV.

The chap that did some welding for me was a chassis welder for Dennis,
he said much the same. It's understandable if you consider how a
diesel cycle works compared with a SI engine.

AJH

 

H

hugh

Guest

• Aug 13, 2006

• #11

In message <[email protected]>, Tony
<[email protected]> writes
>Anyone know any webs site with info about this, apparently instant bhp boost
>with no additonal stress, even apparently better for engine?
>
>
>Tony
>
>
Played around with it a few years ago on my 200TDi.

Yes you can get a lot more power without much additional stress on the
engine and no increase in any engine temperatures. (Info from MIRAS
tests) But any gain in economy is primarily dependent on the price you
would normally pay for your diesel and gas. It's a relatively small
gain, nothing like a petrol/lpg conversion and there is no economic
sense in doing it. Also we never saw any improvement in emissions, quite
the opposite.

Ours was a very simple mixer system, maybe they're more sophisticated
now.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 13, 2006

• #12

On or around Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:43:45 +0100, AJH <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:25:34 +0100, Alex <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Arriva Watford had a fleet of gas-powered buses, they were so
>>uneconimical both in terms of performance and maintentance costs, not
>>to mention chronic problems with engines due to them running a lot
>>hotter on gas, that they have now converted the fleet back DERV.
>
>The chap that did some welding for me was a chassis welder for Dennis,
>he said much the same. It's understandable if you consider how a
>diesel cycle works compared with a SI engine.

I think the only sensible way to run on gas is to have a dedicated engine,
although there is a history of fumigating diesels for more power. Mind,
these days diesels are developing more power anyway.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)

 

A

AJH

Guest

• Aug 13, 2006

• #13

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:24:59 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I think the only sensible way to run on gas is to have a dedicated engine,

Yes and this is the way it was done for the buses but the base engine
was a diesel. It was converted to run with a spark plug and as a SI
engine. As I said this would indicate higher combustion and exhaust
temperatures, so probably more heat ending up in the coolant for a
given power output.


>although there is a history of fumigating diesels for more power.

This is a different kettle of fish. I have tried it with a straight 6
DI tractor engine but at low levels I think burning was incomplete
(gas:air mixtures don't support burning outside of a fairly narrow
range) at higher levels detonation set in quite quickly. I think you
would need quite a complicated derv:lpg:air map.

> Mind,
>these days diesels are developing more power anyway.

Largely because they have moved away from the slow speed Diesel cycle
toward the Otto cycle.

AJH