Loss of traction, skidding...

I'm pretty sure the 1.6mm min tread depth is standard across most EU member countries. Some countries got mandatory requirements on snow chains but they're the 'sensible' scandihooligan ones.

Bloody stupid across the board - Agree with RichM's comments. And am amazed the EU haven't addressed it.


Edit
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Sorry -just noted others had posted similar comments earlier... missed these:doh:

goonarmy said:

tread has zero relvance on ice

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Did I say that it did? No. Did I imply that it did? No. Did I even mention the word "ice" at all? No.

We don't even know whether or not ice was part of the equation for the simple fact that it wasn't mentioned AT ALL, not even by the OP!

Your point of saying "tread has zero relevance on ice" is as much relevant (to this discussion) as saying " tyre tread has zero relevance when trying to drive while upside down."

im just stating facts

At the risk of repeating myself: to the original poster: how much experience of driving 4x4s do you have?

RichM said:

1.6mm is NOTHING.

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Me no understand??

So 0 = minus 1.6 then

RichM said:

Did I say that it did? No. Did I imply that it did? No. Did I even mention the word "ice" at all? No.

We don't even know whether or not ice was part of the equation for the simple fact that it wasn't mentioned AT ALL, not even by the OP!

Your point of saying "tread has zero relevance on ice" is as much relevant (to this discussion) as saying " tyre tread has zero relevance when trying to drive while upside down."

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Actually Rich (I'm Rich M too!), I did state that there was no ice and the road was damp/wet but it wasn't raining - on page 2 of this thread. I'm surprised that the car would slide so easily so I thought I'd post and see what people's thoughts were. Also, as I said, I have ordered new tyres to be fitted tomorrow as mine are probably on about 2mm max at the mo. We can get the odd bit of frost here but haven't yet this year. My own theory is that the asphalt itself round here on some of the roads is indeed bloomin slippery!
In answer to the poster who has asked twice how long I've been driving 4x4s, it's just over two years, why?

Rich (M)

sp33der said:

In answer to the poster who has asked twice how long I've been driving 4x4s, it's just over two years, why?

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4x4s handle distinctly differently to normal cars, because the centre of gravity is much higher up, they're much heavier and often (not in this case though) the tyres are off road biased, which means they're not as grippy on tarmac.

But if its been 2 years, then obviously you're used to the way it handles by now.

puppysandwich said:

4 wheel drive does not mean better traction. The only thing sticking you to the road is your tyres. I would also say your tyres are over inflated which will make a big difference as it reduces the footprint of the tyre on the surface of the road.

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I agree that my tyres may have been a little overinflated although I hadn't set 'em as high as I thought but I think I'll have to disagree that 4 wheel drive doesn't give better traction, I think it does.....and this may be a can of worms....

sp33der said:

I agree that my tyres may have been a little overinflated although I hadn't set 'em as high as I thought but I think I'll have to disagree that 4 wheel drive doesn't give better traction, I think it does.....and this may be a can of worms....

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4 wheel drive does not mean more traction, how can it? all it means is more wheels being turned by the engine. the only reason 4 wheel drive is better on slippery surfaces is because it has 4 wheels being powered so if 1 slips there are still 3 being powered, however it is far more complicated than that. Traction simply means adhesion to the surface that you are driving on. so that can only be discussed in terms of the tyres because they are the only thing proving that adhesion!

This is exactly the sort of thing that happens in a 4x4 if the centre diff stays locked for too long.

Make sure that centre diff is FREE.

CharlesY

pulled up on my parents steep driveway tonight applied handbrake and disco slid back about a foot because of ice, point is 4x4 or good or bad tyres if you are on ice you have no control.

john4wwf said:

pulled up on my parents steep driveway tonight applied handbrake and disco slid back about a foot because of ice, point is 4x4 or good or bad tyres if you are on ice you have no control.

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just think what would have happened to a car (they only lock the rear wheels on the hand brake)

john4wwf said:

pulled up on my parents steep driveway tonight applied handbrake and disco slid back about a foot because of ice, point is 4x4 or good or bad tyres if you are on ice you have no control.

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You're lucky it stopped at all if it slid any.
On ICE, no rubber tyre can get a grip. Try STUDS or chains.

CharlesY

to quote a famous line

"ya canna change the laws of physics"

as has already been said, if the road is slippery though ice, fuel, oil, slime, chocolate or cow dung, then not even the best handling car will stand a chance.

it's surprising the number of people in 4x4's in general think they are invincible in snow and ice. no friction = no grip, simples.

there's a landcruiser in at one of the local garages at the moment, doing 60 mph down a snow covered road and flipped it over a hedge into a field, he thought that the *cough* superior handling and electronic gizmos would keep him stuck to the road - needless to say it's now a write off.

tyre pressures do sound too high, decreasing grip severely. maybe worth checking your rear calipers too, if one is not working than you will get a brake imbalance which will cause the back end to break free under even light braking on a slippery surface.

What 4x4s do, do however is provide better momentum on slippery surfaces not better traction. If anyone thinks that 4x4s offer better traction, take off all your tyres and go for a drive on the rims, you will soon understand the principles and physics involved

puppysandwich said:

What 4x4s do, do however is provide better momentum on slippery surfaces not better traction. If anyone thinks that 4x4s offer better traction, take off all your tyres and go for a drive on the rims, you will soon understand the principles and physics involved

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This makes no sense whatsoever :doh:

blue beasty said:

This makes no sense whatsoever :doh:

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It makes perfect sense. Some people are under the impression that 4x4s offer better traction, ie road holding ability. That is not the case, what they do is increase the vehicles ability to move forward over rough or slippery terrain due to having more wheels being driven. It is the tyres that provide the vehicle its traction, and by taking them off as hypothetically suggested you would soon realise that 4x4s are no good without traction.

puppysandwich said:

What 4x4s do, do however is provide better momentum on slippery surfaces not better traction.

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How does this work, I thought Mass and volocity over a given distance that gives you momentum not wether its 1 wheel drive, 2 wheel drive, 4 wheel drive, 6 wheel drive.... all having the same Mass of course.

Are we getting confused, the only thing that a 4 x 4 gives is extra drive to the two more wheels as aposed to a 2 x 4, so hopfuly it will get grip at one or more of 4 rather then 1 or 2 of the two, therefore give you more drive, the amount of grip on the surface in questionof the tryes is the same if its got for wheel 2 or 4 wheel drive.

Am I correct in my thinking or wrong.

Big Stu 12 said:

How does this work, I thought Mass and volocity over a given distance that gives you momentum not wether its 1 wheel drive, 2 wheel drive, 4 wheel drive, 6 wheel drive.... all having the same Mass of course.

Are we getting confused, the only thing that a 4 x 4 gives is extra drive to the two more wheels as aposed to a 2 x 4, so hopfuly it will get grip at one or more of 4 rather then 1 or 2 of the two, therefore give you more drive, the amount of grip on the surface in questionof the tryes is the same if its got for wheel 2 or 4 wheel drive.

Am I correct in my thinking or wrong.

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When I say momentum which your right was the wrong choice of word, I mean the ability to move forward because if 1 or more wheels slip then there are still 2 wheels driving, So yes you are quite correct.

puppysandwich said:

It makes perfect sense. Some people are under the impression that 4x4s offer better traction, ie road holding ability. That is not the case, what they do is increase the vehicles ability to move forward over rough or slippery terrain due to having more wheels being driven. It is the tyres that provide the vehicle its traction, and by taking them off as hypothetically suggested you would soon realise that 4x4s are no good without traction.

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ok....that makes a bit more sense....it was your dodgy use of 'momentum' that threw me.....basically 4x4 will keep you moving forward longer but wont stop you slipping sideways and is no use at all if you wanna stop