Long Start Td4

ChrisMidWales · Jun 30, 2024

My Freelander 1 pre-facelift Td4 takes longer than normal to start. It has never failed to start but it may take 6-7 or more turn overs (if that’s a thing) before it fires up. There is no smoke when it does and again it has never failed to start.
My question is, what could be causing this and what can I do to improve it.
Thank you.

lynall · Jun 30, 2024

Common issues on many common rail engines is for one injector to leak off to much fuel not allowing the common rail to reach the pressures needed to start the engine.

Quick dirty test is squirt some easy start and if it fires straight away you have a good idea it is a duff injector, you can buy test kits to see which injector is on its way out.

Atomician · Jun 30, 2024

I have an ES '53 plate TD4, and it's always needed the ignition turning over for longer then normal before starting cold. Initially I thought it was a glow plug issue which is fairly common on these models, at 70-90k miles there's a tendency for glow plugs to reach end of life.

I tested the plugs, one wasn't working and others were fine. Replaced the non working one - would have done them all if I could get them out but they were pretty seized in there and I drive it daily so didn't have the time to work on them more.

It got slightly better but never went away though, so I'm presuming I also have an injector issue, again not uncommon. When hot it always starts well, when cold I generally turn it over 3 sets of times, a few seconds each, to get it started. Every once in a while I get a perfect start but rare.

Replacing simple parts I'm ok with but messing with injectors is out of my league so it's been left there.

If you're sure no smoke then it's unlikely to be head gasket. Might be worth checking glow plugs, but if would have thought there would be plenty of smoke if it were these. Maybe the fuel isn't getting to engine quick enough, maybe a blockage or fuel pump/ sensor is feeling it's age?

Is it a regular driver or does it get left for long periods?

110tim · Jun 30, 2024

ChrisMidWales said:
My Freelander 1 pre-facelift Td4 takes longer than normal to start. It has never failed to start but it may take 6-7 or more turn overs (if that’s a thing) before it fires up. There is no smoke when it does and again it has never failed to start.
My question is, what could be causing this and what can I do to improve it.
Thank you.

I had exactly the same thing and it was a leaky injector, a Bosch rebuild that had done only 30,000 miles, a leak back test kit found the problem

110tim · Jun 30, 2024

Atomician said:
I have an ES '53 plate TD4, and it's always needed the ignition turning over for longer then normal before starting cold. Initially I thought it was a glow plug issue which is fairly common on these models, at 70-90k miles there's a tendency for glow plugs to reach end of life.

I tested the plugs, one wasn't working and others were fine. Replaced the non working one - would have done them all if I could get them out but they were pretty seized in there and I drive it daily so didn't have the time to work on them more.

It got slightly better but never went away though, so I'm presuming I also have an injector issue, again not uncommon. When hot it always starts well, when cold I generally turn it over 3 sets of times, a few seconds each, to get it started. Every once in a while I get a perfect start but rare.

Replacing simple parts I'm ok with but messing with injectors is out of my league so it's been left there.

If you're sure no smoke then it's unlikely to be head gasket. Might be worth checking glow plugs, but if would have thought there would be plenty of smoke if it were these. Maybe the fuel isn't getting to engine quick enough, maybe a blockage or fuel pump/ sensor is feeling it's age?

Is it a regular driver or does it get left for long periods?

heat plugs are seldom needed on a TD4 and head gaskets seem to last for ever

ChrisMidWales · Jun 30, 2024

Atomician said:
I have an ES '53 plate TD4, and it's always needed the ignition turning over for longer then normal before starting cold. Initially I thought it was a glow plug issue which is fairly common on these models, at 70-90k miles there's a tendency for glow plugs to reach end of life.

I tested the plugs, one wasn't working and others were fine. Replaced the non working one - would have done them all if I could get them out but they were pretty seized in there and I drive it daily so didn't have the time to work on them more.

It got slightly better but never went away though, so I'm presuming I also have an injector issue, again not uncommon. When hot it always starts well, when cold I generally turn it over 3 sets of times, a few seconds each, to get it started. Every once in a while I get a perfect start but rare.

Replacing simple parts I'm ok with but messing with injectors is out of my league so it's been left there.

If you're sure no smoke then it's unlikely to be head gasket. Might be worth checking glow plugs, but if would have thought there would be plenty of smoke if it were these. Maybe the fuel isn't getting to engine quick enough, maybe a blockage or fuel pump/ sensor is feeling it's age?

Is it a regular driver or does it get left for long periods?

It’s my daily drive. I’m comfortable with smaller jobs but I’ve heard injectors can be hard.

Freddie17 · Jun 30, 2024

… try the easy-start test as @lynall suggests. It’ll give you an indication for a couple of quid, before you start getting in to the harder stuff.

If you’ve not long had it, run some Comma diesel magic or similar through it for a couple of (half) tanks of fuel - you may find that shifts some of the built up gunk.

ChrisMidWales · Jun 30, 2024

lynall said:
Common issues on many common rail engines is for one injector to leak off to much fuel not allowing the common rail to reach the pressures needed to start the engine.

Quick dirty test is squirt some easy start and if it fires straight away you have a good idea it is a duff injector, you can buy test kits to see which injector is on its way out.

Where do you squirt the easy start?

Freddie17 · Jun 30, 2024

Into the air intake - just 1 or 2 seconds, then turn the key.
Dont worry about trying to reconnect the intake, just turn the key - it’ll fire up.

Just make sure you don’t have a loose hose clip or something that will fall off (down!) when she starts…

Freddie17 · Jun 30, 2024

Ideally, read the live data and you’ll see the fuel pressures

Arctic2 · Jul 1, 2024

Not good practice to use easy start, but on single occasion maybe ok, leak back test is the way forward if no diagnosis test is available, injectors are not that hard to remove just time consuming, you can get an awkward one which may need the slide hammer, changed out quiet a few.

It could also be the HPFP regulator O-rings starting to fail, once they fail the car will have an hard time of starting at all.

ChrisMidWales · Jul 1, 2024

Arctic2 said:
Not good practice to use easy start, but on single occasion maybe ok, leak back test is the way forward if no diagnosis test is available, injectors are not that hard to remove just time consuming, you can get an awkward one which may need the slide hammer, changed out quiet a few.

It could also be the HPFP regulator O-rings starting to fail, once they fail the car will have an hard time of starting at all.

That sounds good. I was under the assumption that you can get them stuck in and they snap and cause a world of hurt.

Arctic2 · Jul 1, 2024

ChrisMidWales said:
That sounds good. I was under the assumption that you can get them stuck in and they snap and cause a world of hurt.

Trick is make sure the engine is hot and it helps with removal of injector.

1

2

3

4

always best to clean round the injector with an hose before hand.

5

6

7

leak back test is best way to check the injectors.

8

9

10

you are looking for minimum 20mm or less over 2 minute test with engine on tick over.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

Pardon our interruption...

ChrisMidWales · Jul 1, 2024

Arctic2 said:
Trick is make sure the engine is hot and it helps with removal of injector.

1

2

3

4

always best to clean round the injector with an hose before hand.

5

6

7

leak back test is best way to check the injectors.

8

9

10

you are looking for minimum 20mm or less over 2 minute test with engine on tick over.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

Incredibly helpful thank you very much. It must be the glow plugs that I have heard of sheering before coming out.

ChrisMidWales · Jul 1, 2024

Arctic2 said:
Trick is make sure the engine is hot and it helps with removal of injector.

1

2

3

4

always best to clean round the injector with an hose before hand.

5

6

7

leak back test is best way to check the injectors.

8

9

10

you are looking for minimum 20mm or less over 2 minute test with engine on tick over.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

Just been looking now. I’ve seen injectors for over £200 each. Is their a budget brand you would recommend or are they garbage.

lynall · Jul 1, 2024

Arctic2 said:
Not good practice to use easy start, but on single occasion maybe ok, leak back test is the way forward if no diagnosis test is available, injectors are not that hard to remove just time consuming, you can get an awkward one which may need the slide hammer, changed out quiet a few.

It could also be the HPFP regulator O-rings starting to fail, once they fail the car will have an hard time of starting at all.

Easy start/brake cleaner, you would be surprised what gets used in commercial garages, engines all fine afterwards.
PS easy start also works to seat tyres on their beads.

Freddie17 · Jul 1, 2024

ChrisMidWales said:
Just been looking now. I’ve seen injectors for over £200 each. Is their a budget brand you would recommend or are they garbage.

… your issue is that the engine turns over a bit before firing, and you are now onto looking at new injectors :stars:

Diagnose the issue before worrying about what it ‘might’ be!

ChrisMidWales · Jul 1, 2024

True. I have clonk when going over bumps especially whilst turning and so far I’m renewing bits of suspension constantly chasing it.

lynall · Jul 1, 2024

ChrisMidWales said:
True. I have clonk when going over bumps especially whilst turning and so far I’m renewing bits of suspension constantly chasing it.

ARB bushes or top mac strutt bearings.

ChrisMidWales · Jul 1, 2024

lynall said:
ARB bushes or top mac strutt bearings.

I have both on order and will be doing wishbone

Long Start Td4

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