Lift pump woes

Hi all,
Well I thought I was all good to go with my newly rebuilt 200tdi engine (that has taken me way too long to do)
Anyway everything is back together and she won’t start.

I have traced this back - I think to the lift pump, although I started back from injectors, cut-off solenoid, fuel filter.
I have removed the lift pump (which was working I assume) and leaving the fuel inlet pipe connected to it I have furiously cranked on the priming lever and received no fuel from the outlet.

I’m assuming that I’m not missing anything and it can’t be return pipe related.

so the question is: do I order a new pump (and at this stage I’m not going down the electric route) ?
Or, is my understanding on operation faulty and is there another area to check first?

Would be worth rechecking fuel lines from tank to lift pump for any blockages/kinked line restricting flow before changing LP. If LP they're cheap to replace.

v8250 said:

Would be worth rechecking fuel lines from tank to lift pump for any blockages/kinked line restricting flow before changing LP. If LP they're cheap to replace.

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Yes, I will have look under to see if anything got trapped during the refit

The engine should start and run with a dead lift pump
The injector pump has its own internal fuel pump it is only the angles the vehicle can operate at that requires it to have a mechanical lift pump as well as the injector pumps internal pump
Many normal cars have the same injector pump fitted and have no extra fuel pump

Can you put a pvc pipe onto lift pump inlet and into a clean jar diesel and crank
Plan b put clean pvc pipe onto pump from clean jar diesel then crank
At least to get it started
Have you got 12v at solenoid when cranking

lynall said:

The engine should start and run with a dead lift pump
The injector pump has its own internal fuel pump it is only the angles the vehicle can operate at that requires it to have a mechanical lift pump as well as the injector pumps internal pump
Many normal cars have the same injector pump fitted and have no extra fuel pump

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Ahh, ok something I did not know. So it is possible it’s an injector pump problem, or both, there is 12 v to the solenoid on the injector.
Presumably the injector pump is mechanical and even if (for the sake of argument) I had refitted it incorrectly timed(which I don’t believe to be the case) fuel should still flow.
I do have another known working injector pump but need to be sure where the problem is before I embark on the dismantling and swap faff

steve2286w said:

Can you put a pvc pipe onto lift pump inlet and into a clean jar diesel and crank
Plan b put clean pvc pipe onto pump from clean jar diesel then crank
At least to get it started
Have you got 12v at solenoid when cranking

Click to expand...

Definitely 12v there.
feeding diesel in to get a response may be a good call. I was originally hoping it was just air in the system and opening every pipe union would slowly flush it out but that does not appear to be occurring.

Stop solenoids can click and the solenoid can still not work, the presence of voltage only means there is voltage there.
Have you removed the stop solenoid and chcked the plunger and sping? also check for the presence of swarf.
Regardless of how the pump is timed it should still be delivering fuel and itf timing out the exhaust emitting white smoke.

Always go back to basics, did it run ok before? if yes then you have simply done something wrong, pipes routed correclty, tried sucking on the fuel pipe from the tank?

+1 as @lynall , and do buy a correct quality solenoid, ala Bosch RTC6702G . The cheapo's will fail again and it's always worth carrying a spare. There's a video on YouTube of a couple stranded in Europe all from a FiP solenoid.

https://www.lrworkshop.com/parts/RTC6702

v8250 said:

+1 as @lynall , and do buy a correct quality solenoid, ala Bosch RTC6702G . The cheapo's will fail again and it's always worth carrying a spare. There's a video on YouTube of a couple stranded in Europe all from a FiP solenoid.

https://www.lrworkshop.com/parts/RTC6702

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Flat screwdriver used as a chisel will get them out if need be, messy mind!
Remove spring and plunger, refit and carry on.

lynall said:

Stop solenoids can click and the solenoid can still not work, the presence of voltage only means there is voltage there.
Have you removed the stop solenoid and chcked the plunger and sping? also check for the presence of swarf.
Regardless of how the pump is timed it should still be delivering fuel and itf timing out the exhaust emitting white smoke.

Always go back to basics, did it run ok before? if yes then you have simply done something wrong, pipes routed correclty, tried sucking on the fuel pipe from the tank?

Click to expand...

It ran perfectly previously, the pump has sat on the bench while I stripped and rebuilt the engine- pipe sucking is next on my list. I will take out the solenoid and have a look.
Pretty sure the pipes are routed correctly as they ‘kind of’ fell back into place when I dropped the engine back in- but it’s a good point.
I’d actually like fuel to be drawn out at the lift pump, which certainly wasn’t happening. More things to try today

v8250 said:

+1 as @lynall , and do buy a correct quality solenoid, ala Bosch RTC6702G . The cheapo's will fail again and it's always worth carrying a spare. There's a video on YouTube of a couple stranded in Europe all from a FiP solenoid.

https://www.lrworkshop.com/parts/RTC6702

Click to expand...

Right! I’m seeing obvious benefits in a spare solenoid - I can also swap the one over in my ‘spare rip’

Ok, so more ‘lack of progress’
1 I made myself a solenoid removal spanner - took a while to work that one out!
2 I’ve swapped the solenoid over with another that I know (was) working
3 It clicks when 12v applied (but so did the other so no guarantees)
4 cranked the engine no start, no fuel anywhere.

5 removed the fuel lift pump and swapped in a new one (as it had arrived)
6 sucked on the inbound pipe and got a tasty mouthful of diesel
7 attempted to pump on the fuel lift priming handle but not much happened- no fuel came out of the lift pump outlet
8 cranked the engine with only the lift pump inlet attached- no fuel from the outlet ( I did note the previous comments that the lift pump is not the main delivery pump but I expected something to come out

9 removed the fuel filter and filled it with fuel(it was new so empty)
10 had a quick crank - nothing, no fuel at the fip inlet or return

Running out of ideas- Is it possible whatever part of the fip that pumps fuel is dead?
I do have a spare FIP, but I would like to understand anything I might have missed

Get some pipe & rig up a new fuel tank.(also using gravity to help bleed)
This will eliminate the pick up pipe.
Connect straight to lift pump & prove this works.
Bleed to fuel filter
Bleed to banjo on main HP pump
Try to start

lift pumps can break & the HP pump will happily drag fuel through & keep running.

So after a thorough bleeding did it start...?

Re no7 on your list above when priming from the lift pump you need to ensure the pump lever is not on the cam otherwise it won’t pump when you operate the lever , so need to turn engine a bit
A bit clear pipe can be used to look for air coming in , 8mm bore pvc

The clear pipe idea is good (and the cam position) I will fiddle some more

So another question, what are the name/size of the fuel line connectors that go to the lift pump, they are larger it appears than brake calliper connectors as of course the idea of making up a fuel reservoir and flushing everything out using gravity was a great suggestion but at the moment hooking everything up without the right connectors seems not so straight forward. I have a brake pipe bend/flaring kit but brake pipe is a narrower diameter.
Why is nothing quick and easy?

JokerUK said:

So another question, what are the name/size of the fuel line connectors that go to the lift pump, they are larger it appears than brake calliper connectors as of course the idea of making up a fuel reservoir and flushing everything out using gravity was a great suggestion but at the moment hooking everything up without the right connectors seems not so straight forward. I have a brake pipe bend/flaring kit but brake pipe is a narrower diameter.
Why is nothing quick and easy?

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It looks like one these could be the answer NTC2223 - Land Rover Defender Fuel Hose Lines Restrictor as I can push rubber hose on

One thing worth looking at is the connections on the fuel filter housing, I had issues starting when I rebuilt mine and I had a blocked banjo bolt connector - no idea how it blocked etc but I happened - was okay once it was unblocked. Might be worth a check that all your unions are clear to flow fuel?