200tdi rebuild, trouble starting

wowa75 · Dec 28, 2023

After 3 year rebuild, got to the point today of trying to start the engine, Defender 200tdi......but no go! New starter and battery turns motor strong. I suspect it is a fuel issue as no fuel from bleed screw when bleeding the filter or to fuel pump in-line. Lift pump firms up but nothing after 5 minutes of priming. Tried releasing return pipe from pump (likely lots of air) as per Haynes but nothing. Fuel pump new with new injectors. Fresh 20l diesel in tank. Hoping simple issue from tank to filter but how to check? Any other suggestions??

Thanks!

lynall · Dec 28, 2023

Stop solenoid, or its power supply

wowa75 · Dec 28, 2023

lynall said:
Stop solenoid, or its power supply

Can this be checked simply by disconnecting the solenoid? If so, I tried disconnecting then priming and turning the motor on the starter.....no luck. Wondering about fuel lines from tank of lift pump. Is there an easy check for the lift pump?

Hicap phill · Dec 28, 2023

Have you an air compressor ?
Remove feed pipe to lift pump
Remove fuel cap, and use the air line & rag to pressurise the tank. If no blockages it should come out the feed pipe at lift pump.
Once you have it this far, reconnect to lift pump, pressurise tank again and prime to filter

tottot · Dec 28, 2023

Pipes wrong way around on lift pump an old favorite, worth a check.

lynall · Dec 28, 2023

wowa75 said:
Can this be checked simply by disconnecting the solenoid? If so, I tried disconnecting then priming and turning the motor on the starter.....no luck. Wondering about fuel lines from tank of lift pump. Is there an easy check for the lift pump?

The solenoid needs 12 V to open.
With the ignition on pull the little spade terminal off and the stop solenoid should go click and click again when you refit the terminal.
This does not mean the solenoid is okay it just means it is getting power, you need to hear that vlick, do not rely on a multimeter.
To confirm it properly you need to remove the solenoid take out the little rubber plunger and the light spring then refit the solenoid, bleed it up and see if it will start.
The solenoids are bit of a bugger to get out when fitted to the vehicle.
Also the two fuel banjo bolts on the actual injector pump itself look identical have exactly the same thread and will fit in place of each other but one is totally different and has a built-in flow restrictor, space the flow restrictor one goes on the return side of the injector pump i.e. the little leak of pipes from the injectors will lead down to the return side

wowa75 · Dec 28, 2023

Update.......I got her running after pulling fuel with a fluids vacuum syringe to the lift pump, filter and injection pump.

However, turning the key to the off position did not shut her down. I pulled the injection pump solenoid connection and she stopped. I am sure this one is a simple fix but what am I missing?

Hicap phill · Dec 28, 2023

wowa75 said:
Update.......I got her running after pulling fuel with a fluids vacuum syringe to the lift pump, filter and injection pump.

However, turning the key to the off position did not shut her down. I pulled the injection pump solenoid connection and she stopped. I am sure this one is a simple fix but what am I missing?

Check the cable feed to solinoid with a volt meter to make sure it’s a switched live
You may have wired up ignition wrong

steve2286w · Dec 28, 2023

Well done on getting it started hope it sounds good.. was about to say sometimes pump won’t prime if the end of it is on cam lobe so need to turn the engine slightly

you did have an issue with a loose white /black wire in an earlier post that’s prob the stop solenoid

wowa75 · Dec 28, 2023

I am in Canada; will have a look this evening when most of you are tucked up in bed and let you know tomorrow. I was meticulous with my wiring, labelling everything and thousands of photos. Will check ignition end of the wiring first. The rest of the dash, instruments etc are not yet hooked up and know some electrics are dependent on others.....everything in the engine bay is hooked up. I have read the alternator wiring is another check.

(She did sound good when fired up after 4 years(!).......the fragrance, sight and sound of a running dirty old defender was something to behold.....magic!)

wowa75 · Dec 28, 2023

Quick update.....but no fix. Ignition barrel connections wired correctly. Fuel solenoid connection has switched power from ignition (multimeter), but checked only when engine not running.
Still running with key off/removed. Still stops only by pulling fuel solenoid connection. Very odd.....

Could the fuel solenoid wire be pulling power from something else when engine running?

steve2286w · Dec 28, 2023

Could the solenoid wire be on wrong terminal on switch , although it sounds simple using multimeter

Need to find one which is live with heater plugs on and starting and ignition on but off when ignition off

wowa75 · Dec 29, 2023

steve2286w said:
Could the solenoid wire be on wrong terminal on switch , although it sounds simple using multimeter View attachment 306035Need to find one which is live with heater plugs on and starting and ignition on but off when ignition off

Still no joy after much tinkering.
Engine continues to run when ignition in off position/key removed.
Ignition connections are definitely correct....see attached photo, (checked as only connection position engine starts in position 2).
Feed to fuel solenoid dead when ignition off, power in position 1, power (engine starts) in position 2.
When key/ignition off, solenoid feed still powered (13.8V) hence why won't switch off.
Only way to stop engine is pull the solenoid connector.

Assuming power to to the solenoid from the ignition is dead in the off position, the solenoid feed is getting power from something else when engine is running.

Any ideas??

Hicap phill · Dec 29, 2023

You may have ignition barrel wires wrong.

If the engine is running & you remove the cable off the stop solinoid does the engine stop?
(If no it’s the solinoid sticking)
If yes it’s live cable to FIP

Now replace cable,restart engine and then remove the FIP feed off the ignition barrel.
Does engine stop?
If it does you need to find the live that is on for run position on key barrel. (You may be on a permanent live/large brown cable link)

wowa75 · Dec 29, 2023

The engine stops when the feed is disconnected from the injection pump.

It does not stop if removed from the ignition barrel....it's like it draws from another source only when engine is running. The ignition terminal it is on behaves as it should as described above...definitely switched.

marjon · Dec 29, 2023

wowa75 said:
The engine stops when the feed is disconnected from the injection pump.

It does not stop if removed from the ignition barrel....it's like it draws from another source only when engine is running. The ignition terminal it is on behaves as it should as described above...definitely switched.

I dont know the wiring or the setup, But.
Is the main engine loom old or new?
You are getting a feed to the stop solenoid wire only while engine running.

Does the charge light work as it should?

Does your wiring match the previous dia?

I would disconnect the alternator small wire (charge light exciter I think) and see what happens when you start it and turn it off.

J

wowa75 · Dec 29, 2023

New autosparks loom that ran the vehicle before engine out and rebuild. Has been labelled and meticulously replaced as it was....but obviously not quite right.
I was wondering about the alternator but didn't know where to begin....2 large feeds going in and a smaller female lead to male terminal below. Also providing 12v to headlamps on new loom is the only change to previous.

wowa75 · Dec 29, 2023

marjon said:
I dont know the wiring or the setup, But.
Is the main engine loom old or new?
You are getting a feed to the stop solenoid wire only while engine running.

Does the charge light work as it should?

Does your wiring match the previous dia?

I would disconnect the alternator small wire (charge light exciter I think) and see what happens when you start it and turn it off.

J

The injection pump solenoid feed works exactly as it should in the ignition positions but once engine is running continues to power when ignition off, even disconnected from the ignition barrel.

marjon · Dec 29, 2023

wowa75 said:
The injection pump solenoid feed works exactly as it should in the ignition positions but once engine is running continues to power when ignition off, even disconnected from the ignition barrel.

I can see in the static situation it all checks out.
When its running it is getting a feed, to me that means there is a connection/backfeed somewhere from the alternator. Or a short.
But as you state "new harness"

Please does yours match the dia posted earlier

J

marjon · Dec 29, 2023

wowa75 said:
New autosparks loom that ran the vehicle before engine out and rebuild. Has been labelled and meticulously replaced as it was....but obviously not quite right.
I was wondering about the alternator but didn't know where to begin....2 large feeds going in and a smaller female lead to male terminal below. Also providing 12v to headlamps on new loom is the only change to previous.

As I said I don't know. but I would try with the red 1 pulled. It will probably give you a charge light warning (light stays on)

J

200tdi rebuild, trouble starting

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