Leak found but frustrating.

After lots of searching and help from the forum I have located my leak on a 1.8 k series. 54 plate. It is from the top right hand corner of the head gasket when viewed from the front. Stood cold it was loosing 1/2 pint a day tracking down the joint and onto the bell housing at the front.
The reason I say frustrating is that as the engine warms then it appears to seal. Also topped up and ran it yesterday and it has now sealed again with no loss stood overnight and cold. :doh:

Has anyone else experienced this intermittent sealing and unsealing of a weeping head gasket?

Mark

Sounds like the unit closes the leak when warming up through expansion. Unusual one, that. I was going to suggest trying some K-Seal, 75 owners have given decent reports about it, but I'm not sure it would work as the leak may heal before it gets a chance to do it's stuff. Has the gasket been changed before?

Is it definitely the HG and not a leak from the inlet manifold running down and making it look like its from there?

beelzebub said:

Sounds like the unit closes the leak when warming up through expansion. Unusual one, that. I was going to suggest trying some K-Seal, 75 owners have given decent reports about it, but I'm not sure it would work as the leak may heal before it gets a chance to do it's stuff. Has the gasket been changed before?

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k seal is for a cooling system so will do nothing apart from making a bog up of an already crap design.
k steel is the chancers choice for bodging a repair rather than curing it, 75% odds of it working arn't good, and on the flip side you have a 25% chance of it ****ing the engine up:doh:.
sort the problem out before it goes bang, theres no such thing as a quick fix

Thanks guys. Gasket has been changed after water in oil. Has been fine for twelve months. Pretty sure it is not inlet gasket as nothing underneath inlet manifold and water appears at the joint of head gasket on back righthand side but it is on the side of the head/block above gearbox. As the engine is slightly inclined forward it appears to track down the head block joint to the front in small drip. I suspect head gasket has gone between coolant ports on back corner and the outside edge. Appears to have self sealed after a run now !!!!

Not sure if garage fitted modified rail ?? When replacing gasket. Also the guy (very experienced with these engines ex MG Rover) said he had fitted a german gasket he stated he had a lot of success with. He was well aware of MLS type but preferred this one.

I guess this could be an issue but hey what are thelonger term outcomes for the MLS gaskets?

Mark

I'd normally agree with other coolant sealers as they have been known to constrict the water passages in the K series unit and wreck it in the process. However, and this is based on comments from other non-turbo K series drivers who have tried it and found it was effective for them, K-Seal something worth considering using, although as I said above I think in this case it most likely wouldn't work. The big caveat though, as you rightly mentioned, is that it really should only be seen as a temporary cure until you can get the time/cash to do the job properly at the first opportunity and not put it off just because everything seems to be fine.

Gmw76 said:

Thanks guys. Gasket has been changed after water in oil. Has been fine for twelve months. Pretty sure it is not inlet gasket as nothing underneath inlet manifold and water appears at the joint of head gasket on back righthand side but it is on the side of the head/block above gearbox. As the engine is slightly inclined forward it appears to track down the head block joint to the front in small drip. I suspect head gasket has gone between coolant ports on back corner and the outside edge. Appears to have self sealed after a run now !!!!

Not sure if garage fitted modified rail ?? When replacing gasket. Also the guy (very experienced with these engines ex MG Rover) said he had fitted a german gasket he stated he had a lot of success with. He was well aware of MLS type but preferred this one.

I guess this could be an issue but hey what are thelonger term outcomes for the MLS gaskets?

Mark

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hmmmmm. No idea what this German gasket you mentioned is, but if the bloke fitting it has had a good track record with them he'd probably like to see it if you've got a problem now. Personally I prefer the MLS as a fair old bit of cash was chucked at sorting the problem out, but they only last as long as the time spent doing the job properly. That includes replacing the head bolts if they have stretched towards their limits, fitting the oil rail to stiffen up the block and so on.

Does. The exhaust smell of coolant

beelzebub said:

I was going to suggest trying some K-Seal,

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In a word NO

Gmw76 said:

Thanks guys. Gasket has been changed after water in oil. Has been fine for twelve months. Pretty sure it is not inlet gasket as nothing underneath inlet manifold and water appears at the joint of head gasket on back righthand side but it is on the side of the head/block above gearbox. As the engine is slightly inclined forward it appears to track down the head block joint to the front in small drip. I suspect head gasket has gone between coolant ports on back corner and the outside edge. Appears to have self sealed after a run now !!!!

Not sure if garage fitted modified rail ?? When replacing gasket. Also the guy (very experienced with these engines ex MG Rover) said he had fitted a german gasket he stated he had a lot of success with. He was well aware of MLS type but preferred this one.

I guess this could be an issue but hey what are thelonger term outcomes for the MLS gaskets?

Mark

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Is this the payen gasket by any chance?

Sounds like hgf sorry

Northern Irelander said:

Is this the payen gasket by any chance?

Sounds like hgf sorry

Click to expand...

Is that Payen as in keep payen

Update.

Spoke with the guys at the garage (who I trust and have a track record of honesty with me anyway) and they have said they will sort it. They have said they would be surprised if it was the head gasket again if they have done the work. I described the symptoms of it sealing and apparently un sealing at will and the location of the weep. He thinks it may be the inlet manifold issue and has suggested some problem with a brass insert ??? ( my wife took the message so if that doesn't make sense then will have to check. Anyway he suggested it weeps just above the head/block joint at the back but then can track around the Sid of the joint to where I have seen it. The car is now with them for pressure put on the system over night for it to be seen cold in the morning. He seems quite familiar with the intermittent nature and then when it is cold.

Hope his thoughts are correct and it is the manifold.

I will ask about the Uprated rail etc as I thought the full improvement package could have been done with the head. I.e. Inlet mods, rail, etc.

That said the HG repair was less than £400 so I don't feel overcharged for that as it included new belts,flush,oil,filters,antifreeze,etc.

Maybe the difference in cost on more expensive repairs includes inlet and rail?

I will give an update after diagnosis because if it is the inlet than I can't state enough how difficult that is to see on the side of the head!

I will try and remember to ask about the HG type used


Mark

Oops forgot to answer the exhaust smell query. No there is no coolant smell to the exhaust. Also googling Payen has thrown up that it is an MLS design. I will try and get more details.

At the risk of linking to something listed before I found this an interesting read from the MG side of things.

Mark
Head Gasket Aritcle from MG Owners Club October 2006 Issue

Ok latest up date. Car back from garage. My wife picked it up so didn't get chance to quiz him on the finer details. Pressure tested and leak traced to inlet manifold. First big point here I looked in detail at this area and couldn't spot it. I thought it was the head joint so anyone having similar issue take note.
Manifold removed, modified ??? And new upgraded gasket fitted. Tales of shaving the manifold slightly ???

New coolant added under vacuum ??? Does this avoid air locking issues I ask myself.

Will monitor to see if repair is successful. To be fair they did say they doubted head gasket if they replaced it 12 months ago.

Anyone shed any light on modification to manifold or vacuum coolant addition?

Mark

Gmw76 said:

Ok latest up date. Car back from garage. My wife picked it up so didn't get chance to quiz him on the finer details. Pressure tested and leak traced to inlet manifold. First big point here I looked in detail at this area and couldn't spot it. I thought it was the head joint so anyone having similar issue take note.
Manifold removed, modified ??? And new upgraded gasket fitted. Tales of shaving the manifold slightly ???

New coolant added under vacuum ??? Does this avoid air locking issues I ask myself.

Will monitor to see if repair is successful. To be fair they did say they doubted head gasket if they replaced it 12 months ago.

Anyone shed any light on modification to manifold or vacuum coolant addition?

Mark

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It did sound like it from your earlier post - glad it was an easy fix though

Not sure about Land Rover but the MG Rover official method for re-filling with coolant was to do it by vacumm fill to avoid air locks - engines were filled this way in the factory as well.

As said above, refilling coolant by vacumn is the norm with MGR stuff, in fact on the MGF it's essential as they are otherwise an utter pain for airlocks, so no need to be suspicious of it being done on yours.

The good thing from your side though is that it wasn't the head gasket failing. Just shows you how water can travel and therefore fool anyone very easily into thinking it's one problem when it's something else. Bet you feel relieved, and sounds like your garage did a good job finding and fixing the problem.

Yep very relieved. Guys at the garage are ex MG rover techs so I trust their views on this engine. They vac fill as the set up on Freelander K series is equally as problematic as MGs.

From looking at the work they used bottom hose to disconnect and drain then they must have vac filled back up.

Also a detailed look at inlet manifold reveals that they looked to have pushed brass inserts located in the manifold out towards the rear of the engine slightly. Could it be that the plastic manifold creeps up these studs and away from the engine as well as the original gasket being suspect?

Mark