Landy saddly missed........

Colin Brooks said:

Hi Folks!!! New at this site....and I am clumsy with a computer....so anything can happen.!!!

Last Land Rover about 10 years ago, a long wheelbase 2.5 turbo, white, it worked hard for me with long trips up and down the country in my job. However I am currently fitting a Landy 2.25 diesel into my narrowboat.
It's amazing how somethings slot into place...(that excludes fitting the actual engine), but facts and figures just laid themselves out before me. Some years ago I had a propeller designed by a propeller manufacturer more or less to my specification....which was very simple...large blades, relatively slow running, and plenty of "push". This was achieved to my great delight, except that the BMC 1.8, fitted in the boat at that time liked to rev a bit and not plod along as described above. So I set about finding an engine which had good figures at my disposal. Design spec.......Prop max rpm, 1000, gearbox 2:1, engine rpm 2000. Max torque from the 2.25 engine somewhere around the 1900 rpm. Yippee !! so the 2.25 won the battle for the next most suitable engine. The engine is now in place, some work still to be done, and soon a few Canal Trials required to confirm the theory. The 2.25 is quite a lump within the engine space....but I am getting there slowly.
Now folks an S.O.S. the drain plug which fits into the outer engine casing just below the exhaust manifold is missing from my engine. So here is my predicament. after a few phone calls to L.R. dealers/spares etc no plug for the engine block can be found. Anyone with info, or the wherabouts of a redundant drain plug, or confirmation of the diameter and pitch of the thread,,,,would be most welcome.
That's all folks, keep up the god work.
Colin.

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Colin Brooks said:

Hi Folks!!! New at this site....and I am clumsy with a computer....so anything can happen.!!!

Last Land Rover about 10 years ago, a long wheelbase 2.5 turbo, white, it worked hard for me with long trips up and down the country in my job. However I am currently fitting a Landy 2.25 diesel into my narrowboat.
It's amazing how somethings slot into place...(that excludes fitting the actual engine), but facts and figures just laid themselves out before me. Some years ago I had a propeller designed by a propeller manufacturer more or less to my specification....which was very simple...large blades, relatively slow running, and plenty of "push". This was achieved to my great delight, except that the BMC 1.8, fitted in the boat at that time liked to rev a bit and not plod along as described above. So I set about finding an engine which had good figures at my disposal. Design spec.......Prop max rpm, 1000, gearbox 2:1, engine rpm 2000. Max torque from the 2.25 engine somewhere around the 1900 rpm. Yippee !! so the 2.25 won the battle for the next most suitable engine. The engine is now in place, some work still to be done, and soon a few Canal Trials required to confirm the theory. The 2.25 is quite a lump within the engine space....but I am getting there slowly.
Now folks an S.O.S. the drain plug which fits into the outer engine casing just below the exhaust manifold is missing from my engine. So here is my predicament. after a few phone calls to L.R. dealers/spares etc no plug for the engine block can be found. Anyone with info, or the wherabouts of a redundant drain plug, or confirmation of the diameter and pitch of the thread,,,,would be most welcome.
That's all folks, keep up the god work.
Colin.

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Turboman said:

How are you going to deal with cooling? Are you going direct, or using a skin tank? Are you sure the skin tank can lose enough heat to cool the engine you are fitting? How are you going to cool the exhaust manifolds?

Usual practice is to use a marinising kit, but I can't remember seeing one for a Landrover engine.

What sort of narrowboat have you got, and how long?

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Turboman said:

How are you going to deal with cooling? Are you going direct, or using a skin tank? Are you sure the skin tank can lose enough heat to cool the engine you are fitting? How are you going to cool the exhaust manifolds?

Usual practice is to use a marinising kit, but I can't remember seeing one for a Landrover engine.

What sort of narrowboat have you got, and how long?

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Colin Brooks said:

Hi Turboman
My narrowboat is 45ft long, that's not very long by recent standards. I returned from working in Brazil sometime around 1979 with a few bob to spare. My boat seems to have been something of an experimental build. As could be expected it's a steel hull but the top-sides are fibregass, there was some weak story about the steel/fibreglass being "experimental". This may be correct because it's nothing like the steel/fibreglass hire boats seen around the Cheshire area about 1980 onwards. The construction of the hull, especially the framing is massive compared with later boats I have seen with fibreglass topsides. My assumption is that the boat builder/designer thought that the fibrelass upperworks are not part of the structural integrity. The boat has had several engines. No.1 was Petter air cooled diesel 2 or 3 cylinder engine. I was not happy with this because firstly no hot water generated by the engine....and something of a "plodder". Second engine was a BMC 1.8 diesel, a lovely engine, wins lots of Brownie-points. However I thought the normal RPM was very high, so when that engine was vandalised I set about looking for something with the best Torque I could find.....and the Landy 2.25 came along...and I looked no further..

All the stuff about cooling is mostly borne out of experiments, and this conversation could go on for ever !!!....and I am called to other duties. If you would like full details I will gladly send you them, but I must close now. Thanks for being interested. Best Regards Colin

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Turboman said:

45 foot is quite a nice size, you can access all areas of the system, and there are many more places to turn.
My own boat is 65 foot, and I find it quite handy, although there are a few canals it can't go on, because the locks are too short.
Nothing wrong with fibreglass upperworks, they are light, and don't rust like steel, or get wet and delaminate like plywood.
BMC is a very good engine in a canal boat. Plenty still giving good service.

Not worried about exact details, but pics of interesting vessels are always welcome in the Boat Thread.

Just wondered if you were looking for suggestions, I am experienced with working on boats, another member works in a shipyard, and yet another is a marine architect.

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Shimsteriom said:

Try not to include private details in your posts like email addresses

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Shimsteriom said:

Try not to include private details in your posts like email addresses

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Colin Brooks said:

Thanks for your note, I am trying my best to master LandyZone and failing miserably. I am not a boffin in these matters, and I am finding that latching on to he next feature very difficult...and on that problem I suggest you consider a simplified solution. In one of my e mails I have mentioned that I once worked in Brazil, now distant countries can sometimes shock one a bit.....I was very surprised, that in the 1970's one of the systems I had to deal with had produced a very good way of locking on to a secondary routine...and it seemed to me to be very simple for a novice. (we tend to think of them as Novices!!)


Basically a centre "sun" with rays leading to various second stages of the programme index, and in some cases this repeating itself to secondary menu or index. It was certainly very clear and simple.

Being foreigners in distant parts of the world doesn't mean they are stupid or wit-less.

As I struggle to find my way around this site, I am constantly reminded that I have seen, and worked , with something which was very good and very simplistic.

Regards. Colin Brooks.



ColiBrooks

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Turboman said:

Not quite sure what you are struggling to find? But all you have to do is ask, and someone will tell you.

For starters, as you seem to be having difficulty with the Quote function. If you want to quote someone else's post, just click on Reply, at the RHS bottom of the post you want to quote. The text of their post will appear in the reply box. Click in the box after where the final [QUOTE ] appears, and type what you want to say.

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Turboman said:

How are you going to deal with cooling? Are you going direct, or using a skin tank? Are you sure the skin tank can lose enough heat to cool the engine you are fitting? How are you going to cool the exhaust manifolds?

Usual practice is to use a marinising kit, but I can't remember seeing one for a Landrover engine.

What sort of narrowboat have you got, and how long?

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Colin Brooks said:

Hi there, in an effort to carry on from your messaging this morning I will explain what I did to solve the engine cooling water problem...although it was not a problem at all.

I had two tanks made up in a welding shop, these comprised one vertical panel about 6mm thick, 18 inches high and about 20 inches in the horizontal. along 3 edges I had a strip of 6mm steel welded on 3 sides, these edges being about 1.1/2 inches wide. (HOWEVER, with hind-sight this is too thick a dimension for the cooling tank. 1" or 3/4" would be better). The un-welded longitudinal, 4th side, was welded to the floor of the engine compartment (Obviously a steel floor.) and the 3 remaining edges were welded to the vertical panel of the "swim". There is one cooling panel on each side of the boat. A little bit of grinding required to match the upper edge of the cooling tank with the curvature of the swim....and then the vertical edges ground down to a similar dimension as found on the top edging. There are also two pipe connections, one upper and one lower, positioned as we thought would be best.

The cooling water, in direction of flow...,starts with a small tank which is welded to the outside of the rear bulkhead at about top of tank 5 ft 6 inches or so above the deck level. This tank has an overflow which decants excess water overboard. My tank doesn't have a lid, so I can just glance at it from time to time. I just fill it with a kettle, pan or hose pipe, getting water from any convenient point along the canal system.

The pipe from the header tank is passed to the engine and enters at the upper side of the thermostat housing. This is a tee piece, the right hand branch brings in the water from the tank described above and the down branch is connected by pipe to the thermostat housing,(with thermostat of course)n The left hand outlet then connects to to a valve position, if the the two valves are open, the heated engine water passes though the boat and warms up 3 radiators. The return cooled water is routed to the skin tank. In my case Port side. If heating is not required then the flow and return valves can be closed.

There is then a complicated pipe routine, which I need to look at in detail, What do you think of the plan so far ?? Best of luck with the explanation, I would suggest that you begin to sketch it out. because it isn't straight forward from now on

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Turboman said:

Sounds more or less like a conventional skin tank, which is mounted on the swim, as you describe.
Usual thickness for the skin tank on a narrowboat is 1" or 25mm. Also, it is usual to weld a baffle plate into the skin tank, to prevent the water going straight between the inlet and outlet coolant pipes, without circulating round the tank.
The water is allowed to flow round the skin tank by the opening of the thermostat, but the hoses feeding the calorifier for hot water shold be piped direct from the engine, so the hot water is heated before the thermostat.

Problems I can see with the system you describe. First, a skin tank should run a strong antifreeze mix, about 50/50, to prevent corrosiion in the skin tank, so discharge to the outside water of overspill isn't going to be ideal.
Topping up shouldn't be needed, except at the two yearly coolant change.

The other issue is the cooling of the exhaust manifold, which gets very hot in a confined engine room with no air flow. Usual on a marinised engine is that the header tank for the coolant system sits on top of the manifold, so it is cooled by the water flow from the tank.

If your gearbox is hydraulic, it will probably use a Bowman cooler mounted in the return from the skin tank to cool the gearbox oil, so make sure you make provision for that.

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Turboman said:

Sounds more or less like a conventional skin tank, which is mounted on the swim, as you describe.
Usual thickness for the skin tank on a narrowboat is 1" or 25mm. Also, it is usual to weld a baffle plate into the skin tank, to prevent the water going straight between the inlet and outlet coolant pipes, without circulating round the tank.
The water is allowed to flow round the skin tank by the opening of the thermostat, but the hoses feeding the calorifier for hot water shold be piped direct from the engine, so the hot water is heated before the thermostat.

Problems I can see with the system you describe. First, a skin tank should run a strong antifreeze mix, about 50/50, to prevent corrosiion in the skin tank, so discharge to the outside water of overspill isn't going to be ideal.
Topping up shouldn't be needed, except at the two yearly coolant change.

The other issue is the cooling of the exhaust manifold, which gets very hot in a confined engine room with no air flow. Usual on a marinised engine is that the header tank for the coolant system sits on top of the manifold, so it is cooled by the water flow from the tank.

If your gearbox is hydraulic, it will probably use a Bowman cooler mounted in the return from the skin tank to cool the gearbox oil, so make sure you make provision for that.

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Colin Brooks said:

Hi there...firstly I am not impressed with this site. It takes me ages to find out where I should be going ...for instance, to reply ....If I have to spend any more hours on this site I will abandon it............I have a boat to re-build, and hopefully finish it before it snows !!

Meanwhile it would be beneficial to me if I updated my own information and produced a drawing of the complete water system, hot and cold. When I was converting from an air cooled engine and to accommodate the BMC it was done over a few short hours whenever possible. After being back in the UK for about 18 months I set up my own small engineering office and soon was worked to a standstill...total exhaustion. During this period the boat was just used as a week-end retreat...if I was lucky!!! Eventually the boat was sorted out with a new propeller. (which is my pride and joy). the engine running well...but the BMC and the propeller were not best friends, which is why there is a Landy engine in now.

So I'll put pen to paper and draw up what I have...no doubt things will raise their head and scream ....NOT GOOD.....NEEDS CHANGE !!!! The story of my life....almost !!

So...I'll plod on with producing a drawing. As regards exhaust cooling....True, there isn't a water cooled manifold for the Landy, as far as I know. My situation to date is a wrapped exhaust manifold with a stainless steel sheet between the wrapping and the edge of what can be considered a "corridor" .

That's about all for the moment, we have a dry day so must get on with studying what lurks within the boat.

Regards Colin.

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