Lake District National Park Authority - Well done!

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On 2006-05-12, Richard Brookman <[email protected]> wrote:

> So if going equipped for burglary is a crime (as burglary itself is a
> crime), then carrying boltcroppers on a country ramble with the intention of
> damaging property must surely be a crime too.


Bear in mind that he, she or it might be going to remove an illegal
obstruction, they certainly do exist.

Some can take it too far though, in the uk.rec.rights-of-way group
(when it was still active) there was one rambler who boasted of
carrying a machete to hack through someone's garden that was on a RoW,
he said that the owners came out to bundle him off but when he waved
it at them, they backed off. That kind of action can quite easily
result in someone pulling a shotgun to defend themselves against the
nutcase in the bobble hat who appears in their garden waving a sword!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-05-12, Richard Brookman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> So if going equipped for burglary is a crime (as burglary itself is a
>> crime), then carrying boltcroppers on a country ramble with the
>> intention of damaging property must surely be a crime too.

>
> Bear in mind that he, she or it might be going to remove an illegal
> obstruction, they certainly do exist.
>
> Some can take it too far though, in the uk.rec.rights-of-way group
> (when it was still active) there was one rambler who boasted of
> carrying a machete to hack through someone's garden that was on a RoW,
> he said that the owners came out to bundle him off but when he waved
> it at them, they backed off. That kind of action can quite easily
> result in someone pulling a shotgun to defend themselves against the
> nutcase in the bobble hat who appears in their garden waving a sword!


Shouldn't stand in the way of Darwin in action!

--
"He who says it cannot be done would be well advised not to interrupt
her doing it."

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!


 
On 2006-05-12, GbH <[email protected]> wrote:

> Shouldn't stand in the way of Darwin in action!


It's almost worth buying a bit of land with a RoW on it just to stand
in wait, ready for the culling... Perhaps it could be turned into a
country sport?

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
>> Shouldn't stand in the way of Darwin in action!
>
> It's almost worth buying a bit of land with a RoW on it just to stand
> in wait, ready for the culling... Perhaps it could be turned into a
> country sport?


I think we're onto something here. Now that hunting has been all but
banned, we could start up a new blood sport to entertain us country
folk :)
 
On or around Fri, 12 May 2006 16:04:04 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2006-05-12, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Not necessarily, Garburn Pass [now closed :-(] operated a pass scheme
>> which had to be renewed monthly as it had gates with a combination
>> lock, and the passcode changed every month. If they didn't like you
>> they could always deny you a permit!

>
>Sounds good to me, although it seems that even that wasn't enough
>restriction if they've since closed it!!


uncharacteristically, I've been reading this thread...

the "organised convoy" brigade, especially such convoys of modified
mud-plugging vehicles, have IMHO a lot to answer for. I personally know of
one byway that has been closed purely because a bloke who shall be nameless
(but rumour has it that he's moved to Cyprus) over-used it for such activity
and rendered it in such a mess that you'd not get a standard LR more than
about 5 yards. Then, of course, having trashed the lane proper, they start
deviating from the course and cutting up the moorland (which will take years
to recover).

Before this activity it was a little-know and lightly-used lane and the
locals (most of whom, now, are very much anti thanks to the abuse and so
forth they endured from so-called "off-roaders" although they all use LRs
themselves) didn't have a problem with it. "commercial" use of this lane
has queered the pitch in this area for anyone wanting to take a few standard
vehicles on a mild, sensible run, and has lead to the inevitable TRO once
the council got its arse in gear.

IMHO, if you want to play mud-pies and test your modified off-roader to the
limit against the terrain, f*ck off to a private dedicated site and do it
there. There are plenty of such sites nowadays and there's no excuse
whatever for going around carving up the countryside and spoiling it for
everyone else.

as for the rest, in more-or-less standard vehicles, then have the common
sense you're supposed to get at birth and if the ground looks iffy and prone
to damage, don't bloody drive it, turn around and go somewhere else.

If things go on as they are, all bar for a few high-profile places where
people put in the time and effort to keep the road maintained will be
inevitably be closed. A lot of the blame for this is with the morons who
fancy playing in their newly-acquired "jeep" but to be brutally honest, a
good part of it is with organised clubs etc. who are over-using a limited
resource (to whit, the lanes network) in organised runs and so forth,
likewise the various magazine-sponsored runs which are inevitably
high-profile, and in most cases not putting the effort back in.

And please don't start telling me "it's the council's job to maintain the
lanes in usable condition", since a) I know that and b) the councils, in my
observation, don't manage that well at keeping up maintenance on the normal
road network. I'm sure the council would be quite happy to have a crew of
blokes to maintain the green lanes, but would you (collective you) be happy
to pay the increased council tax to pay for it?

So, to summarise, we need to:

1) continue to increase the number of off-road "pay and play" style sites
and improve them to appeal to more people.

2) use those sites for the majority of "off-roading" and ALL "mud-plugging".

3) limit the use of lanes to the sort of traffic volume they can take.

4) continue to liaise with the local authorities about "green lane repair
days" and the like and do more of them. I know in some areas a lot of good
work is done, but in many areas none is.


The way I see it, anything less than the above is going to result, probably
within 10 years, in no off-tarmac access for vehicles (other than farmers
and so forth) at all.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
On 2006-05-13, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> IMHO, if you want to play mud-pies and test your modified off-roader to the
> limit against the terrain, f*ck off to a private dedicated site and do it
> there.


Indeedy, in fact I've hardly ever come across terrain that's remotely
challenging to even a stock 110 on a green lane, even in the Brecon
Beacons, although I'm sure some of it exists. I'd recommend going to
pay 'n' plays to learn how to drive off-road and also to practice some
self-recovery on a quiet part of the site. That's how I found out how
f*&% heavy waffle-boards are when packed with mud ;-) I've never
needed to use them since.

> but to be brutally honest, a good part of it is with organised clubs
> etc. who are over-using a limited resource (to whit, the lanes
> network) in organised runs and so forth, likewise the various
> magazine-sponsored runs which are inevitably high-profile, and in
> most cases not putting the effort back in.


Putting the effort back in is quite good fun, and highly recommended
for those who don't already do it.

A permit-based system might be of use to allow those who want to make
money from off-roading to use lanes in a responsible manner, with
lanes that can take it being made available. If the company wants to
use a lane that is not sustainable, then they should organise a team
to improve the lane.

Personally I'd like to see what they've got in the U.S., national
parks create trails over there for off-roaders, but most of them seem
to be rocky trails so they'll out-last the trucks. Mud pies are
boring TBH, undulating terrain, steps, trenches and other such things
are much more fun.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-05-12, GbH <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Shouldn't stand in the way of Darwin in action!

>
> It's almost worth buying a bit of land with a RoW on it just to stand
> in wait, ready for the culling... Perhaps it could be turned into a
> country sport?


set th foxes on them?

--
"He who says it cannot be done would be well advised not to interrupt
her doing it."

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!


 
On Sat, 13 May 2006 09:09:55 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2006-05-13, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> IMHO, if you want to play mud-pies and test your modified off-roader to the
>> limit against the terrain, f*ck off to a private dedicated site and do it
>> there.

>
>Indeedy, in fact I've hardly ever come across terrain that's remotely
>challenging to even a stock 110 on a green lane, even in the Brecon
>Beacons, although I'm sure some of it exists. I'd recommend going to
>pay 'n' plays to learn how to drive off-road and also to practice some
>self-recovery on a quiet part of the site. That's how I found out how
>f*&% heavy waffle-boards are when packed with mud ;-) I've never
>needed to use them since.


There is a huge variety in the quality of pay and play places too. I
stopped going to one of the local ones because by lunchtime it was
overrun by 'maximum attack tossers' in bobbed Rangies and some of the
most dangerous recovery techniques imaginable. That and the bloke in
the hi-vis marked 'Safety Marshall' drinking Fosters from the can put
me off that particular place for good.

--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"
 
In message <[email protected]>
Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 13 May 2006 09:09:55 +0100, Ian Rawlings
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On 2006-05-13, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> IMHO, if you want to play mud-pies and test your modified off-roader to the
> >> limit against the terrain, f*ck off to a private dedicated site and do it
> >> there.

> >
> >Indeedy, in fact I've hardly ever come across terrain that's remotely
> >challenging to even a stock 110 on a green lane, even in the Brecon
> >Beacons, although I'm sure some of it exists. I'd recommend going to
> >pay 'n' plays to learn how to drive off-road and also to practice some
> >self-recovery on a quiet part of the site. That's how I found out how
> >f*&% heavy waffle-boards are when packed with mud ;-) I've never
> >needed to use them since.

>
> There is a huge variety in the quality of pay and play places too. I
> stopped going to one of the local ones because by lunchtime it was
> overrun by 'maximum attack tossers' in bobbed Rangies and some of the
> most dangerous recovery techniques imaginable. That and the bloke in
> the hi-vis marked 'Safety Marshall' drinking Fosters from the can put
> me off that particular place for good.
>


Join an ALRC [1] affiliated club and do some RTV trials. If the
setting out is any good your vehicle, and perhaps more importantly,
your driving skills will be tested to the full.

Some clubs take the "non danaging" rule too literally, and the
result can be a bit boring, but Staffs & Shrops, Lancs & Cheshire,
N&N and Peak & Dukeries trails are usually very good. I won't list
the duller ones.....;-)

Richard

[1] By all means go to AWD club trials, but I found they tend
to assume the presence of axle diff locks etc and were taken
far too seriusly for my liking - it's supposed to be fun!
By being ALRC you know that the other motors in your class
are pretty much standard so it's down to you, and you can
just snigger at the "me motor let me down" brigade.

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
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