Lake District National Park Authority - Well done!

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M

Matthew Maddock

Guest
Just received a letter (actually two) from the LDNPA, presumably
as a former pass holder for Garburn Pass.

It details the NERC bill, what it means, what they are doing about
it and gives full details of all BOAT's. UCR's etc that are closing
or remaining open as of 1 October 06.

The Authority is obviously under absolutely no obligation to provide
this information to me unless I ask, and I have to say that I'm very
impressed that they have written to me 'out of the blue' as it were.
Not only that, but the quality and quantity of information provided.

Matt
 
I got mine today as well - but did you read the bit that said all 31
closed to motors on May 2nd Matt?

Its a lesson in how to deliver bad news clearly and objectively. So
many councils can't be bothered and have relied on misinformation and
obfuscation to avoid reclaasifying lanes over the last 20 years. Still
a shame that over 30 lanes have closed - of which 10 were rubbish, 10
were average and 10 were stunning. I'm crying into my beer at the loss
of these.

 
Surely not? I thought all the UCR's and BOAT's remained open and only RUPP's
closed. Are you saying that every lane in the LDNP is no longer driveable?


"Landylover" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I got mine today as well - but did you read the bit that said all 31
> closed to motors on May 2nd Matt?
>
> Its a lesson in how to deliver bad news clearly and objectively. So
> many councils can't be bothered and have relied on misinformation and
> obfuscation to avoid reclaasifying lanes over the last 20 years. Still
> a shame that over 30 lanes have closed - of which 10 were rubbish, 10
> were average and 10 were stunning. I'm crying into my beer at the loss
> of these.
>


 
Sorry - let me clarify. There are still 76 routes still open. Last
month the LDNPA notified that 31 dual status byways and RUPPS were
going to be closed. We all thought it would take 6 months - it
didn't. The National Parks got their skates on and downgraded these
routes to Restricted Byways last week. On a RB you can ride a horse,
ride a mountain bike or drive to your house or business. You just
can't drive a Landy down it for fun :(

There's still plenty to drive, my concern is that now there will be
more use of fewer lanes. Beware all - this rotten Government and the
strong Ramblers lobby hasn't stopped putting the squeeze on our
activities - so get out there whilst you can! Wales will follow this
summer, probably July time.

Out interest - NERC reduces lane mileage from about 5% of the
non-tarmaced network to 1.8%.

How you getting on with the Landy BTW?

 
Landylover wrote:
> Sorry - let me clarify. There are still 76 routes still open. Last
> month the LDNPA notified that 31 dual status byways and RUPPS were
> going to be closed. We all thought it would take 6 months - it
> didn't. The National Parks got their skates on and downgraded these
> routes to Restricted Byways last week. On a RB you can ride a horse,
> ride a mountain bike or drive to your house or business. You just
> can't drive a Landy down it for fun :(
>
> There's still plenty to drive, my concern is that now there will be
> more use of fewer lanes. Beware all - this rotten Government and the
> strong Ramblers lobby hasn't stopped putting the squeeze on our
> activities - so get out there whilst you can! Wales will follow this
> summer, probably July time.
>
> Out interest - NERC reduces lane mileage from about 5% of the
> non-tarmaced network to 1.8%.
>
> How you getting on with the Landy BTW?
>
Oh but perhaps you can drive your landrover down it for fun. I live on a
bridleway and the residents have private vehicular rights. Other people
who can drive on the track are called invitees..... the postman for
example , or the Fire brigade. Well you dont actually invite the
postman, he just comes, and if one were say for example bringing the
"word of god " to the local residents or canvassing at properties ( are
you intested in joining Glass Sir?) along the lane , you would probably
get away with it. It might be worth looking into.
Steve the grease
 
Nice plan which will work in some places - I checked the Cumbrian lanes
and drew a blank.

 
Landylover wrote:
> I got mine today as well - but did you read the bit that said all 31
> closed to motors on May 2nd Matt?

Yes I did :-(

> There's still plenty to drive, my concern is that now there will be
> more use of fewer lanes.

I agree, and I think places who run commercial 'off-road trips' along
lanes are not in a small part to blame for this bill. I think we
probably could have got away with things if the lane were being used
for the very occasional private fun-run as it were by 2/3 landies,
but they have been exploited and made regular use of by companies
making money out of them. Now the legal lanes have been restricted
even more it will just put pressure on those ones, and no doubt they
will be exploited more, damaged more, and then closed for their
protection!

Anyway, I still congratulate the council for providing this
information - obviously not everyone hates us!

Matt
 
On 2006-05-12, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> I think places who run commercial 'off-road trips' along lanes are
> not in a small part to blame for this bill.

Indeed, personally I favour a "passport" style permit to use lanes,
but of course it's impossible to police as the lawbreakers will ignore
it, so the obvious solution is to ban the ones who don't break the law!!!

Still, it would make it much harder to run organised convoys for money.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On Friday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Ian Rawlings" wrote:

> On 2006-05-12, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > I think places who run commercial 'off-road trips' along lanes are
> > not in a small part to blame for this bill.
>
> Indeed, personally I favour a "passport" style permit to use lanes,
> but of course it's impossible to police as the lawbreakers will ignore
> it, so the obvious solution is to ban the ones who don't break the law!!!
>
> Still, it would make it much harder to run organised convoys for money.

One of the problems is that these places are still, in theory, public
highways, and what we get are temporary closures to somehow deal with
damage. Except that temporary is indefinite, and nobody seems to want to
spend money on repairs.

And most of this territory in the Lake District is now open to the
public under the recent open access legislation, which has the not-much-
talked-about consequence of making them a "public place". So there's the
farmer with his sheepdog, and the dog's running around unleashed in a
public place, sometimes a heck of a long way from the farmer.

Sorry, I'm a bit grumpy today, but I'm not sure that "don't be silly
about enforcing the law" is an adequate government response.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
> Indeed, personally I favour a "passport" style permit to use lanes,
> but of course it's impossible to police as the lawbreakers will ignore
> it.

Not necessarily, Garburn Pass [now closed :-(] operated a pass scheme
which had to be renewed monthly as it had gates with a combination
lock, and the passcode changed every month. If they didn't like you
they could always deny you a permit!

IMHO this sort of scheme is ideal for many green lanes.

Matt
 
On 2006-05-12, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> Not necessarily, Garburn Pass [now closed :-(] operated a pass scheme
> which had to be renewed monthly as it had gates with a combination
> lock, and the passcode changed every month. If they didn't like you
> they could always deny you a permit!

Sounds good to me, although it seems that even that wasn't enough
restriction if they've since closed it!!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On 2006-05-12, "David G. Bell" <[email protected]> wrote:

> One of the problems is that these places are still, in theory, public
> highways, and what we get are temporary closures to somehow deal with
> damage. Except that temporary is indefinite, and nobody seems to want to
> spend money on repairs.

What we do in the Dorset area is to go and do the repairs ourselves,
this does require some co-operation from the council though so if the
council is stuffed full of antis then that can cause problems.

> And most of this territory in the Lake District is now open to the
> public under the recent open access legislation, which has the not-much-
> talked-about consequence of making them a "public place". So there's the
> farmer with his sheepdog, and the dog's running around unleashed in a
> public place, sometimes a heck of a long way from the farmer.

Yep, the damage done to the countryside by rambler's cars, tramping
feet, litter, gate-opening/closing habits, fence breaking, style
breaking, dog walking etc multiplied a hundredfold over the damage
done by off-roaders due to the numbers of them.. Not something that
gets moaned about in the press. I've seen plenty of "please keep your
dogs on a leash" signs when off-roading, not seen any regarding 4x4
use apart from on the ridgeway where there were seasonal advice boards.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
> Yep, the damage done to the countryside by rambler's cars, tramping
> feet, litter, gate-opening/closing habits, fence breaking

Speaking of which, the Farmer who owns the fields around my parents
house was telling Dad about the walkers who decided his field was
a free-for-all. After being called out (again) by the Police
because his cows were in the road, a BT engineer who was working up
a pole nearby told the farmer that he'd see walkers come up to his
fence, pull out a big pair of bolt croppers and snip through his
fence from top to bottom so they could walk through the field.
There is a right of way - and a style not 50 yards from where they
had cut through the fence, but they had obviously decided (wrongly)
that the farmer had put a fence up to stop them going through
instead of actually looking at their map properly. My parents
regularly have walkers stopping in their front garden to admire the
view - despite it having private property written just about every
where you can find (they actually climb over the sign saying private
property to get into their garden!) There isn't even a public right of
way within 500 yards of their house - Mum is soon out there and gives
them a piece of her mind though :)

It's pretty typical of the arrogant attitude of the bobble hat
brigade, they think they are always in the right and bollocks to
everyone else.

What I find amazing is that they carry a pair of bolt croppers with
them! For what other reason than breaking through gates/fences
could they possibly have to take them on a walk? I'm sure that is
some sort of arrestable offence unless you have a genuine reason to
carry such an item. If it isn't - it should be!

Matt
 
On 2006-05-12, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> What I find amazing is that they carry a pair of bolt croppers with
> them! For what other reason than breaking through gates/fences
> could they possibly have to take them on a walk?

Chances are they went there to cut the fence, probably because they
think the style is in the wrong place. I've torn up posts and cut the
locks on a few gates near where I used to live, because the farmer had
deliberately blocked the byway with locked gates and concrete posts,
this is leading onto cropped fields, no animals around.

Of course I checked I was right first, whether the ramblers are right
in your case or not I have no idea.

> I'm sure that is
> some sort of arrestable offence unless you have a genuine reason to
> carry such an item. If it isn't - it should be!

We certainly don't want to go down the path of people having to
explain how every item they are carrying has direct relevance to where
they are right now, it's bad enough right now with Leatherman-type
things, which are technically illegal due to locking blades.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Matthew Maddock wrote:
>> Yep, the damage done to the countryside by rambler's cars, tramping
>> feet, litter, gate-opening/closing habits, fence breaking
>
> Speaking of which, the Farmer who owns the fields around my parents
> house was telling Dad about the walkers who decided his field was
> a free-for-all. After being called out (again) by the Police
> because his cows were in the road, a BT engineer who was working up
> a pole nearby told the farmer that he'd see walkers come up to his
> fence, pull out a big pair of bolt croppers and snip through his
> fence from top to bottom so they could walk through the field.
> There is a right of way - and a style not 50 yards from where they
> had cut through the fence, but they had obviously decided (wrongly)
> that the farmer had put a fence up to stop them going through
> instead of actually looking at their map properly. My parents
> regularly have walkers stopping in their front garden to admire the
> view - despite it having private property written just about every
> where you can find (they actually climb over the sign saying private
> property to get into their garden!) There isn't even a public right of
> way within 500 yards of their house - Mum is soon out there and gives
> them a piece of her mind though :)
>
> It's pretty typical of the arrogant attitude of the bobble hat
> brigade, they think they are always in the right and bollocks to
> everyone else.
>
> What I find amazing is that they carry a pair of bolt croppers with
> them! For what other reason than breaking through gates/fences
> could they possibly have to take them on a walk? I'm sure that is
> some sort of arrestable offence unless you have a genuine reason to
> carry such an item. If it isn't - it should be!
>
> Matt

In the vernacular I think its called going tooled up. Can't call to mind the
actual offence but there definitely is one, punishable on summary conviction with
a custodial sentence? BICBW

--
"He who says it cannot be done would be well advised not to interrupt
her doing it."

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!


 
In message <[email protected]>
Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Yep, the damage done to the countryside by rambler's cars, tramping
> > feet, litter, gate-opening/closing habits, fence breaking
>
> Speaking of which, the Farmer who owns the fields around my parents
> house was telling Dad about the walkers who decided his field was
> a free-for-all. After being called out (again) by the Police
> because his cows were in the road, a BT engineer who was working up
> a pole nearby told the farmer that he'd see walkers come up to his
> fence, pull out a big pair of bolt croppers and snip through his
> fence from top to bottom so they could walk through the field.
> There is a right of way - and a style not 50 yards from where they
> had cut through the fence, but they had obviously decided (wrongly)
> that the farmer had put a fence up to stop them going through
> instead of actually looking at their map properly. My parents
> regularly have walkers stopping in their front garden to admire the
> view - despite it having private property written just about every
> where you can find (they actually climb over the sign saying private
> property to get into their garden!) There isn't even a public right of
> way within 500 yards of their house - Mum is soon out there and gives
> them a piece of her mind though :)
>
> It's pretty typical of the arrogant attitude of the bobble hat
> brigade, they think they are always in the right and bollocks to
> everyone else.

Bernard keeps finding them on the private road to the farm he lives
at... "Well the paths a bit wet....." (It's nice green grass, it's
the lambing/calving field).

>
> What I find amazing is that they carry a pair of bolt croppers with
> them! For what other reason than breaking through gates/fences
> could they possibly have to take them on a walk? I'm sure that is
> some sort of arrestable offence unless you have a genuine reason to
> carry such an item. If it isn't - it should be!

You are allowed to remove any obstruction to a legal right of way,
but common sense is required - not something the Ramblers seem to
show much of though - letting a bull out is not sensible etc.

>
> Matt

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
> Chances are they went there to cut the fence, probably because they
> think the style is in the wrong place. I've torn up posts and cut the
> locks on a few gates near where I used to live, because the farmer had
> deliberately blocked the byway with locked gates and concrete posts,
> this is leading onto cropped fields, no animals around.
>
> Of course I checked I was right first, whether the ramblers are right
> in your case or not I have no idea.

The style is actually in the right place, but whether the ramblers are
right or not, does it matter? There is access to the field literally
50 yards away, it is not like their path was being blocked. I know
some farmers are miserable old sods who will block/lock everything in
sight to prevent anyone onto their land, and although that may not be
legal - I can understand why they do it.

>> I'm sure that is
>> some sort of arrestable offence unless you have a genuine reason to
>> carry such an item. If it isn't - it should be!
>
> We certainly don't want to go down the path of people having to
> explain how every item they are carrying has direct relevance to where
> they are right now, it's bad enough right now with Leatherman-type
> things, which are technically illegal due to locking blades.

I quite fancy carrying a shotgun around with me all the time,
but I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to do that!

Matt
 
On 2006-05-12, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> I quite fancy carrying a shotgun around with me all the time,
> but I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to do that!

Boltcutters aren't that lethal, although they can be used up to 21
times to discourage people ;-) 20 times with women.

But do you really want to be quizzed as to why you're driving your 4x4
for a given trip and not a smaller car? Oh right, we're already at
that point!!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
GbH wrote:

|| In the vernacular I think its called going tooled up. Can't call to
|| mind the actual offence but there definitely is one, punishable on
|| summary conviction with a custodial sentence? BICBW

Used to be called "going equipped" - useful way to nick a scrote who carries
a jemmy in his jeans pocket who hasn't actually burgled someone - yet.

So if going equipped for burglary is a crime (as burglary itself is a
crime), then carrying boltcroppers on a country ramble with the intention of
damaging property must surely be a crime too. Except that whereas Johnny
Chav might have to explain and justify all the contents of his pockets to
the Police, it is highly unlikely that Tarquin McRambler would have to do
the same. "Boltcroppers? Dynamite? Portable thermonuclear device? Fair
enough. Mind how you go, Sir."

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.


 
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