Knocking noise from front right wheel area, constant 3 Amigos

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Jamiegreen

Jamiegreen

Well-Known Member
Posts
628
Location
Wales
Figured I'd make a new thread for this one. Currently in Romania (Drove from Wales) and made it to about Budapest when the 3 amigos came on, kept driving, no where to stop, then when I started breaking it would grind and pull to the right badly.I was only 10 mins away from where I was stopping for a bit, so I took the brakes out and one pad was cracked and broke apart when tapped. Not sure if one piston was stuck but freed both up and replaced pads on both front wheels. Put it back together, took f**kin ages to get the air out of them but got going eventually. Brakes are perfect now, continued to Neamt where I was heading, all good except a knocking noise from the front wheel wheel when going over bumps/potholes...which is all the time in Romania. 3 amigos always on. Im sure this noise was there from when I left, but was less noticable. I also just changed it back from sways to ACE before I left, but that all looks good.
I cant really feel play in the wheel hub but I will check again, but not really sure where else to look.
Thanks
 
The "3 amigos" indication could be caused by a number of things, problems with a wheel hub or rather with the speed sensor for the ABS is a usual fault, as is the shuttle valve switch plate inside the ABS modulator. These are the usual causes, but not the only ones.
The only way of diagnosing the exact cause is reading the DTCs, the fault codes. The only code readers known to give truthful results are Nanocom, Hawkeye, Lynx for the DIY market or the Testbook T4 for the professional user.
The knocking from the front wheel area could be an indication pointing to the cause of the 3 amigos, but not always. You should also check the suspension bushes and the steering joints for play.
 
brian47 said:
The "3 amigos" indication could be caused by a number of things, problems with a wheel hub or rather with the speed sensor for the ABS is a usual fault, as is the shuttle valve switch plate inside the ABS modulator. These are the usual causes, but not the only ones.
The only way of diagnosing the exact cause is reading the DTCs, the fault codes. The only code readers known to give truthful results are Nanocom, Hawkeye, Lynx for the DIY market or the Testbook T4 for the professional user.
The knocking from the front wheel area could be an indication pointing to the cause of the 3 amigos, but not always. You should also check the suspension bushes and the steering joints for play.
Click to expand...
I'll try and see if any of the garages around here can read codes, might be testing my luck though :rolleyes:

All drop links and sway bar bushes are brand new, and look fine.
If anyone has ace, I was wondering when the vehicle is parked, how compressed should the pistons be? Because when I fitted my ace I put them in so they are just slightly decompressed when it's sitting on the wheels.
And I think I have my pipes the right way.. but any diagram showing which pipes go to which side of the pistons would be appreciated, the system was switched on but not bled so it's hard to tell.
Steering still feels pretty tight but I'll take a look.. I didn't have this noise before the car was jacked up for a week out installing ace :confused:
 
Jamiegreen said:
I'll try and see if any of the garages around here can read codes, might be testing my luck though :rolleyes:

All drop links and sway bar bushes are brand new, and look fine.
If anyone has ace, I was wondering when the vehicle is parked, how compressed should the pistons be? Because when I fitted my ace I put them in so they are just slightly decompressed when it's sitting on the wheels.
And I think I have my pipes the right way.. but any diagram showing which pipes go to which side of the pistons would be appreciated, the system was switched on but not bled so it's hard to tell.
Steering still feels pretty tight but I'll take a look.. I didn't have this noise before the car was jacked up for a week out installing ace :confused:
Click to expand...
the best way of checking for the knocking is to get someone to rock the vehicle vigorously whilst you feel each component,play even slight will be felt
 
Jamiegreen said:
If anyone has ace, I was wondering when the vehicle is parked, how compressed should the pistons be? Because when I fitted my ace I put them in so they are just slightly decompressed when it's sitting on the wheels.
Click to expand...

I don't know ACE, but thinking about it, the rams are bi-directional, one end or the other will activate depending on which way the body lean is to be corrected. That being the case, I would have thought that whilst sitting on level ground with no body lean (check with a spirit level) the rams should be set to their mid travel.
 
brian47 said:
I don't know ACE, but thinking about it, the rams are bi-directional, one end or the other will activate depending on which way the body lean is to be corrected. That being the case, I would have thought that whilst sitting on level ground with no body lean (check with a spirit level) the rams should be set to their mid travel.
Click to expand...
As far as I know the rams only move in 1 direction, the high pressure line pushes them out to lift the right side of the truck and then they simply stay in position and won't extend when cornering in the other direction
 
Jamiegreen said:
As far as I know the rams only move in 1 direction, the high pressure line pushes them out to lift the right side of the truck and then they simply stay in position and won't extend when cornering in the other direction
Click to expand...
they are double acting rams which is why they have 2 pipes one at either side of the piston, so both pipes are high pressure or low pressure return depending on which way piston is to move
 
I
jamesmartin said:
they are double acting rams which is why they have 2 pipes one at either side of the piston, so both pipes are high pressure or low pressure return depending on which way piston is to move
Click to expand...
I stand corrected

So this may mean the rams should be halfway extended when flat, easiest way is if someone could look at theirs, can see it with the wheel on, maybe there's something on Google images
 
Ah yes.. halfway out..and there was a video .. maybe this is why it's knocking possibly
 

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jamesmartin said:
they are double acting rams which is why they have 2 pipes one at either side of the piston, so both pipes are high pressure or low pressure return depending on which way piston is to move
Click to expand...
Only one pipe on each actuator is HP(lower on front and upper on rear) cos one way no need for HP as the body's weight or the roll force is working on the actuator, that's why they are also named "block to actuator - HP or LP" click on + at 15, 16, 17, 18 here http://www.allbrit.de/UNI.cfm?PAGE=817973&SPRACHE=EN
 
sierrafery said:
Only one pipe on each actuator is HP(lower on front and upper on rear) cos one way no need for HP as the body's weight or the roll force is working on the actuator, that's why they are also named "block to actuator - HP or LP" click on + at 15, 16, 17, 18 here http://www.allbrit.de/UNI.cfm?PAGE=817973&SPRACHE=EN
Click to expand...
..well in that case I guess where I've put the rams about 7cm or so out should be ok?
 
The actuators will settle when the vehicle gets on it's wheels according to the body weight and when the system bled itself, you can't missadjust them as long as they are fixed in theyr's place
 
sierrafery said:
Only one pipe on each actuator is HP(lower on front and upper on rear) cos one way no need for HP as the body's weight or the roll force is working on the actuator, that's why they are also named "block to actuator - HP or LP" click on + at 15, 16, 17, 18 here http://www.allbrit.de/UNI.cfm?PAGE=817973&SPRACHE=EN
Click to expand...
the rams are double acting they have to be for system to work for both left and right hand cornering, you would only have one way pull on roll bar not the push pull it has to counter act the 2 different forces

Lateral acceleration of the body is sensed by two accelerometers and signals are transmitted to the ECU. The engine
driven hydraulic pump supplies a constant hydraulic flow to the valve block. Two directional control valves are
solenoid operated by the ECU and these supply fluid to the applicable side of each actuator to apply an equal and
opposite force to the torsion bar. In operation the ACE system maintains the attitude of the vehicle body when
cornering.
Each actuator is a conventional double-acting cylinder. A piston is attached to a rod and moves within the cylinder
 
I know the ACE system's description and operation by heart believe me ... why do you think they are called HP and LP then? cos for me it's clear
 
sierrafery said:
I know the ACE system's description and operation by heart believe me ... why do you think they are called HP and LP then? cos for me it's clear
Click to expand...
do you know what a double acting ram is and how it works?
and if it wasnt double acting how could it counter both roll bar forces
 
I know and i dont want to argue with you on this... real HP is delivered only through that side of the ram which counteracts for pressure of the body on the outer side of the curve, the inner side is trying to go up and it's no need for HP to counteract that... only the pipe which is connected to the opposite side of the piston's rod(lower on front and higher on rear) will get real HP from the pump as to push out the rod.... the rod side of the actuator will never get real HP cos it's no need for HP to retract or keep the rod steady when the body is trying to go up on that side which is a much more lower force than when the rod must be pushed against the body's weight.... so i admit that both pipes can be called generically as HP pipes as most of the seller's simplified that cos they are both on the HP side of the system but they are named in microcat "HP" and "LP/return" with a good reason IMO .
example for the fronts from microcat(similar for the rears):
RQB000320 - PIPE-ACTIVE CORNERING ENHANCEMENT FRONT LOW PRESSURE. FRONT HALF ONLY, ORDER CORRESPONDING REAR SERVICE PIPE TO REPLACE FACTORY FIT ONE-PIECE PIPE LOWER VALVE BLOCK TO ACTUATOR
RQB000310 - PIPE-ACTIVE CORNERING ENHANCEMENT FRONT HIGH PRESSURE. FRONT HALF ONLY, ORDER CORRESPONDING REAR SERVICE PIPE TO REPLACE FACTORY FIT ONE-PIECE PIPE UPPER VALVE BLOCK TO ACTUATOR
 
sierrafery said:
I know and i dont want to argue with you on this... real HP is delivered only through that side of the ram which counteracts for pressure of the body on the outer side of the curve, the inner side is trying to go up and it's no need for HP to counteract that... only the pipe which is connected to the opposite side of the piston's rod(lower on front and higher on rear) will get real HP from the pump as to push out the rod.... the rod side of the actuator will never get real HP cos it's no need for HP to retract or keep the rod steady when the body is trying to go up on that side which is a much more lower force than when the rod must be pushed against the body's weight.... so i admit that both pipes can be called generically as HP pipes as most of the seller's simplified that cos they are both on the HP side of the system but they are named in microcat "HP" and "LP/return" with a good reason IMO .
example for the fronts from microcat(similar for the rears):
RQB000320 - PIPE-ACTIVE CORNERING ENHANCEMENT FRONT LOW PRESSURE. FRONT HALF ONLY, ORDER CORRESPONDING REAR SERVICE PIPE TO REPLACE FACTORY FIT ONE-PIECE PIPE LOWER VALVE BLOCK TO ACTUATOR
RQB000310 - PIPE-ACTIVE CORNERING ENHANCEMENT FRONT HIGH PRESSURE. FRONT HALF ONLY, ORDER CORRESPONDING REAR SERVICE PIPE TO REPLACE FACTORY FIT ONE-PIECE PIPE UPPER VALVE BLOCK TO ACTUATOR
Click to expand...
its a double acting ram as lr describe, both rams are on the same side of the car to counter act both rh and lh forces it needs to be a double acting ram, if body weight on a lh bend was sufficient it would be a single acting ram
 
i sustain what i said, let's just agree that we disagree cos you can't convince me on this... :cool::rolleyes: ... IMO microcat is correct with the names cos it's no need for such HP to counteract a body lift when the vehicle is turning right like what pressure is needed to work against the body's weight when turning left

my english is making me problems from time to time when it's about exlaining complicated things so i can missinterpret things though
 
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sierrafery said:
o_O
think again on the bolded part please... i sustain what i said, let's just agree that we disagree cos you can't convince me on this... :cool::rolleyes: ... IMO microcat is correct with the names
Click to expand...
both rams are on the same side and need to counteract both forces,body weight and that pipe description is irrelevant, when you bleed system it throws the car both ways violently because considerable force/pressure is applied to the double acting ram on both sides of the ram, double acting ram of those types are by design stronger on one action, the side with the piston rod been the lesser as less surface area for oil to act on, you think about it pipe description is confusing the issue
 
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