Juddering while driving

Thanks to those who have helped so far, weekend there was spent getting the manifold seated properly (oddly surprised at how easy it was to remove the radiator - though removing the screws for the bumpers was a pig of a job being exposed to the elements for what would look like the life of it.

So to recap over the past week I've had the head off it to replace a burnt exhaust valve in cylinder 2 (ended up doing all the valves as it'd be false economy not to while the head is off). She had a rough idle and would misfire and you could hear the dodgy valve at the exhaust making a puffing sound.

Had an original gasket which despite the 151k on the clock had not failed over the vehicles life but I remove that, got the valves in the head and cleaned it up, checked and skimmed then put a new MLS gasket in and put it back together with as many new parts as I can.

So after getting it back together yesterday I started it up and took it out for a quick drive to make sure it was running alright - idle is not as noticeably rough though the revs do jump about between 900-1200 but while driving it 'judders', as though the clutch keeps getting pressed and released rapidly - doesn't seem to be affected by revs.

I'm going to double check the timing but I'm certain it's correct as I took three attempts at it - double checking that the crank dots were either side of the line on the case and that the sprockets were both in line with each other (locating pin is in the correct position for each as well). The belt wasn't exactly easy to go on however - was reasonably tight even with the tensioner in its relaxed state?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Way to go on getting it all back together!.

Just a few questions.

Handbrake on, car obviously in neutral, engine running. What happens when you slowly open the throttle by hand?. Does it fart about?.

Did you get the right timing belt for your tensioner (Manual or Auto)?. Bit concerned about it being overly tight.

Did you rotate the engine over when the belt was fitted to settle the belt into the correct tension?.

Longbolt said:

Way to go on getting it all back together!.

Just a few questions.

Handbrake on, car obviously in neutral, engine running. What happens when you slowly open the throttle by hand?. Does it fart about?.

Did you get the right timing belt for your tensioner (Manual or Auto)?. Bit concerned about it being overly tight.

Did you rotate the engine over when the belt was fitted to settle the belt into the correct tension?.

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Shall try that over lunch and get back to you.

Definitely the right belt (automatic - LHN100560L) and I replaced the automatic tensioner that was on it already, followed a forum post with pictures about setting it though after putting it on the crank sprocket and pulling it up to the exhaust on there wasn't much slack or free movement to make it go around the water pump and tensioner as easy as I'd expect - even with the tensioner set towards 9'o'clock - it took a lot of jiggery pokery to get it to fit around

nilchaos said:

Shall try that over lunch and get back to you.

Definitely the right belt (automatic - LHN100560L) and I replaced the automatic tensioner that was on it already, followed a forum post with pictures about setting it though after putting it on the crank sprocket and pulling it up to the exhaust on there wasn't much slack or free movement to make it go around the water pump and tensioner as easy as I'd expect - even with the tensioner set towards 9'o'clock - it took a lot of jiggery pokery to get it to fit around

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That is surprising, there is usually a bit of slack to spare.

See how you get on.

Went out on my lunch break and gave it a bit of throttle, I was mistaken in my original post about the idle going between 900-1200, seems to be hovering around 1100 though bounces a little bit +/- 100 either side, seems a bit to high?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Mcs6Wz6as

Video would probably be more appropriate than my description - though I'm still concerned it's leaning towards a timing issue I'm wondering if the IAC has lost the will to live?

nilchaos said:

Went out on my lunch break and gave it a bit of throttle, I was mistaken in my original post about the idle going between 900-1200, seems to be hovering around 1100 though bounces a little bit +/- 100 either side, seems a bit to high?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Mcs6Wz6as

Video would probably be more appropriate than my description - though I'm still concerned it's leaning towards a timing issue I'm wondering if the IAC has lost the will to live?

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Either IAC or TPS (on throttle body) may be worth a clean.

That is quite a noisy engine, am not sure all is well on the hydraulic tappet department.

Re check the timing, and see where you go from there. You have an engine light on as well. Maybe worth checking the O2 sensor wiring and earths. The big question is though, did it Judder before you did the valve job, or just misfire?.

Longbolt said:

Either IAC or TPS (on throttle body) may be worth a clean.

That is quite a noisy engine, am not sure all is well on the hydraulic tappet department.

Re check the timing, and see where you go from there. You have an engine light on as well. Maybe worth checking the O2 sensor wiring and earths. The big question is though, did it Judder before you did the valve job, or just misfire?.

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It had a much worse rough idle but was fine when driving - certainly nothing noticable when it was moving, which is the issue I'm having currently. Shall get the timing checked when I finish today and have a look to see if there's anything in the wiring.

nilchaos said:

It had a much worse rough idle but was fine when driving - certainly nothing noticable when it was moving, which is the issue I'm having currently. Shall get the timing checked when I finish today and have a look to see if there's anything in the wiring.

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Ok, see what you come up with. You know what these engines are like...everything has to be "Just So" or the things just wont run right. I have (luckily) never had this issue after a head job, so hopefully we can get a few more members on the case before long if needed.

I'm no expert, but I'd have though that if the timing was out it would be rough as guts full stop.

I'd be more inclined to check the electrical side of things - not sure what sensors there are but things like coolant temp, crank pos, fuel pressure etc - possibly things like the leads/plugs.

As the light's on though - definitely put a code reader on it to see what the car thinks is wrong!

GrumpyGel said:

I'm no expert, but I'd have though that if the timing was out it would be rough as guts full stop.

I'd be more inclined to check the electrical side of things - not sure what sensors there are but things like coolant temp, crank pos, fuel pressure etc - possibly things like the leads/plugs.

As the light's on though - definitely put a code reader on it to see what the car thinks is wrong!

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Have to agree on the timing etc, but it does have to be spot on. Something isn't right, and as mentioned, that is a very noisy engine head wise. Its one of those cases you just want to be there and check it out further.

GrumpyGel said:

I'm no expert, but I'd have though that if the timing was out it would be rough as guts full stop.

I'd be more inclined to check the electrical side of things - not sure what sensors there are but things like coolant temp, crank pos, fuel pressure etc - possibly things like the leads/plugs.

As the light's on though - definitely put a code reader on it to see what the car thinks is wrong!

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Partially my understanding as well - thinking that if it were timing I'd have misfires and such all over the place but I've come to expect the unexpected out the 1.8 hah.

I'll give the cables the once over soon and check that the plugs are seated correctly as well as the timing. Unfortunately I just have a generic OBD reader and it doesn't like speaking to the Freebie :/

So I've had a look at it but can't find anything breaks in the wiring from rubbing against the head or the like. I opened up the E box and had a look at the ECU just in case but it's the cleanest thing about my hippo!

Drove around in it for a bit and I'm certain it's some form of fuel metering issue as it only happens when the engine is throttled. Stationary + no throttle = rev a tiny bit jumpy though no discernible judder. Driving + no throttle = no judder. Driving + throttle = erratic judder.

That would throw out timing as a cause because I imagine that if it were timing then it'd happen all the bleeding time - irrespective if the vehicle was stationary, idling or driving.

I found a quick tip on resetting the MEMS throttle position sensor (ignition key to position 2 and either pump the pedal 5 times or go and flick the cam 5 times then switch off and remove the key). It may have been a placebo effect but I could have sworn it had a marginal effect on the condition (this is where someone chimes in and tells me it doesn't work with the Freelander ) engine revs also dropped down to the 800-900 mark before going back up to the 1100 mark.

Question is, how do I effectively test all the sensors that would determine how much fuel to put down the manifold? I don't have an OBD reader capable of talking to the computer and I don't really want to take it to a mechanic for him to do it after crossing his palm with silver.

Crikey! Well done on getting it back together but there is something badly wrong with that engine, it sounds terrible. I just got mine back together and cocked up the timing first time but mine wouldn't start at all. I had fitted the cam pulleys on with the little roll pin in the wrong side of the hole but don't think that will be your problem.
Did you use a mirror to check the pulley marks were facing each other, it's really easy to get it wrong with the angles etc? Took me a couple of goes getting mine on right too but found a couple of clothes pegs around the bottom pulley and then fed it round the exhaust pulley first but I found it really tight getting it over the tensioner as well.

Got up a few hours before work this morning and checked the timing - it was bang on though I noticed I hadn't put the tensioner on correctly (the bolt that should go within the wire frame was just below it - whoops!).

Took it off and figured out it's significantly easier to adjust the belt before putting the tensioner on than trying to put the belt around the tensioner.

Alas that had nothing to do with it, as I marginally suspected, so it's back to the drawing board for me. Going to take readings off the TPS to make sure that's not the issue by ensuring that the resistance isn't fluctuating or it's an open circuit, unplugged the o2/lambda sensor to see if it ran better or worse - definitely worse, and I don't think it's the IACV because the idle isn't too bad.

Solved! Runs like a dream now.

Lesson learned, check the most obvious stuff first!

LOL, must have taken a thump while the head was off. Still it might have saved you a duff engine if you hadn't spotted the tensioner was wrong.
Good luck with it.

nilchaos said:

Solved! Runs like a dream now.

Lesson learned, check the most obvious stuff first!

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Well spotted!...dont you just luv it when its something simple after all

Alibro said:

LOL, must have taken a thump while the head was off. Still it might have saved you a duff engine if you hadn't spotted the tensioner was wrong.
Good luck with it.

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Thanks very much, certainly a load of my mind. Sitting pretty at about 800/900 and barely stutters. Next on the agenda is that read window mechanism.

nilchaos said:

Thanks very much, certainly a load of my mind. Sitting pretty at about 800/900 and barely stutters. Next on the agenda is that read window mechanism.

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And that, as they say is a whole new story!.

Top tip on that one from my point of view is don't mess around with the fixing/wire kits, they are a pain in the ass and the little final drive cog is usually stuffed by the motor.

Get a complete scrapper regulator with motor off the bay, or better still one of those pattern ones with motor.

LAND ROVER FREELANDER REAR TAILGATE WINDOW REGULATOR AND MOTOR COMPLETE | eBay

LAND ROVER FREELANDER TAILGATE REAR BACK WINDOW REGULATOR & MOTOR CVH101150 NEW | eBay

Its only money