JUDDERING 03 L322

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ian johnstone

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Can anyone give me any advice or a clue on what may be causing serious juddering on my 2003 Range Rover Auto 85K on the clock.
At tickover in gear and moving slowly after car has warmed up there is a serious juddering/ shaking which disappears when i accelerate away.
Top end performance has not noticeably changed nor has fuel consumption (ave 23 around town) but the shaking when moving in slow traffic in terrible
 
Looking at the MPG figure, I assume it is a Diesel?

What size rims and tyres have you got fitted? There is a Tech Bulletin from LR about Diesels on larger rims sizes and lower profile tyres, there is a known vibration due to diesel knock and the lack of damping from the lack of sidewall flex on lower profiles.

Failing that, the Diesel L322 were fitted with a GM5 Gearbox which are known to eat themselves causing juddering, but if yours disappears once you pull away, you may be lucky, but at 85K miles, you are getting into the 'fail zone' mileage.

Do you have much history of the gearbox, as unfortunately on the GM box, it is not a case of 'if' but 'when' it fails.
 
Saint.V8 said:
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Thanks very much for your reply. Firstly yes it is the BMW 3litre Diesel engine.
I doubt if it is the tyres, they are standard 255/60 R18s all round fitted over 12 months ago, no sign of uneven wear, and the problem only materialised a few weeks ago.
There is no sign of the juddering actually it feels more like a shaking until the engine has warmed up and then its evident at very slow speeds / standstill such as waiting at junctions.
on the open road it is not evident and the car pulls away ok even when towing my caravan.
It first occurred about a month ago and i put it down to dirty fuel and filled up with Non supermarket Shell and put a n injector cleaner in the fuel. The problem seemed to have disappeared but has now returned.
There are no warning lights or messages on.
The gearbox has always seemed ok no difficulty with the auto going into gear,or moving between the sport and tiptronic modes although i have a suspicion and its no more than that , that its holding in gear slightly longer before changing up.The gearbox oil was supposed to have been changed by the garage i bought it from 2 1/2 years ago since which time i have covered just under 20k miles
Even when the juddering / shaking is taking place the rev counter is dead steady

any further ideas would be very welcome
 
Judder at a standstill could be a minor misfire from a suspect injector....they are known for injector loom issues.

It may be possible to have your injectors flow and spray pattern tested (I believe) to see if they are all working optimally....as you are in no doubt aware a Diesel needs fuel, heat and compression to ignite.....there is nowt else to it....so a misfire at idle is more than likely one of those 3.....If it only happens when cold to warm up, you could have a slightly lazy cylinder that takes a while to get to temp compared with the others, causing a bit of lumpy running.

I am no Diesel expert so what would be the cause I have no idea, maybe @wammers who is a diesel guru can shed more light into things.
 
ian johnstone said:
Thanks very much for your reply. Firstly yes it is the BMW 3litre Diesel engine.
I doubt if it is the tyres, they are standard 255/60 R18s all round fitted over 12 months ago, no sign of uneven wear, and the problem only materialised a few weeks ago.
There is no sign of the juddering actually it feels more like a shaking until the engine has warmed up and then its evident at very slow speeds / standstill such as waiting at junctions.
on the open road it is not evident and the car pulls away ok even when towing my caravan.
It first occurred about a month ago and i put it down to dirty fuel and filled up with Non supermarket Shell and put a n injector cleaner in the fuel. The problem seemed to have disappeared but has now returned.
There are no warning lights or messages on.
The gearbox has always seemed ok no difficulty with the auto going into gear,or moving between the sport and tiptronic modes although i have a suspicion and its no more than that , that its holding in gear slightly longer before changing up.The gearbox oil was supposed to have been changed by the garage i bought it from 2 1/2 years ago since which time i have covered just under 20k miles
Even when the juddering / shaking is taking place the rev counter is dead steady

any further ideas would be very welcome
Click to expand...
Thanks once more for your response.
I had wondered about an injector issue but was thinking more along the dirty / poor fuel possibility but as with a loom issue i would have thought that this would be reflected in some fluctuation in rpm showing up on the tachometer - however although i understand the basics i am no diesel expert either ! and i will take your advice and try and contact wammers - is @wammers his full email address or contact address on this site ?
your help

Ian
 
I get exactly the same juddering at tickover and idling speed. Plugged in a Bluetooth IID Diagnostics tool that allows reading of live values for the Cylinders when the vehicle is running, I'm getting an overfuel on Diesel Injector No. 3 that's the cause of the problem. Haven't had a chance to get the vehicle in to my Indy to check out whether it's a sticking injector or a problem with the loom.
You can check the injectors out, once you've identified which one is 'playing up', by swapping it over with a 'good' one from another cylinder and seeing if the problem moves correspondingly. If the problem stays with the cylinder, then most likely it's the loom that's faulty.
A good diagnostics tool should point you in the right direction., so that would be your best starting point.
 
Discotigger said:
I get exactly the same juddering at tickover and idling speed. Plugged in a Bluetooth IID Diagnostics tool that allows reading of live values for the Cylinders when the vehicle is running, I'm getting an overfuel on Diesel Injector No. 3 that's the cause of the problem. Haven't had a chance to get the vehicle in to my Indy to check out whether it's a sticking injector or a problem with the loom.
You can check the injectors out, once you've identified which one is 'playing up', by swapping it over with a 'good' one from another cylinder and seeing if the problem moves correspondingly. If the problem stays with the cylinder, then most likely it's the loom that's faulty.
A good diagnostics tool should point you in the right direction., so that would be your best starting point.
Click to expand...

Brilliant - thanks for this. Can you recommend a suitable diagnostic tool and where i can buy it from ?

Ian
 
Allcomms from Rsw solutions gets most people's votes, icarsoft has been showing up a bit and you have Lynx and bearmach Hawkeye also I think is the name but allcomms is best bang for buck unless you have big money for faultmate
 
holidaychicken said:
Allcomms from Rsw solutions gets most people's votes, icarsoft has been showing up a bit and you have Lynx and bearmach Hawkeye also I think is the name but allcomms is best bang for buck unless you have big money for faultmate
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response . I have in fact already got the Allcomms kit from RSW it was the first thing i bought when i changed from a P35 to the L322 having had the suspension reset kit for the P35.
Unfortunately the Allcomms kit does not drill down far enough in the M57 Diesel engine module . It is telling me that I have a 1613 fault MAP Control which I gather is likely to be an injector(s) fault but it is no more specific. I guess the good thing having run the other modules is that its not coming up with any gearbox / transmission faults and it definitely seems to be a fueling issue. Do you know whether any of the other systems actually drill down to individual injectors ? Unless there is further advice it looks like having to get it on Landrovers own test system for a comprehensive fault code reading.

Thanks again for your advice
 
I have got the IID Diagnostics Tool from GAP Diagnostics, if you do a search for GAP Diagnostics you will get the info off the web.
Mine is the Bluetooth (BT) Model for the 2005 MY models. It is a module that plugs into the OBD Port and can be used with either the steering wheel controls and dash display, or can wirelessly connect to an app on the iPad or iPhone. It is vin locked to one vehicle for full functionality (you can buy extra unlock codes for other vehicles), but can also be used for basic diagnostics on other Range Rovers as well as a lot of different LR Products. It is a very comprehensive piece of kit, although unfortunately it's not cheap (retails for around £380 from Island 4x4 for the BT version) but it can do absolutely everything, including reconfiguring ccf settings.

As I said in my post above, it can read 'live' values and you can get the values for fuelling for the individual cylinders, which is how I pinpointed my initial problem on Cylinder 3 Injector.
 
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