JATCO transmission Mystery??? Please help!

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How do you determine it is a NAS model? Can you remove the acoustic cover and take a picture of the pcv pipes and throttle body?

Having the TCM pictures of the parts numbers will help too.


Can you ask if your garage's code reader can determine if the ecu is a Siemens 2000 or Siemens ms43 ?
 
How do you determine it is a NAS model?
Click to expand...
I was just going off my VIN number and just thought since I bought it new from a dealer in Atlanta GA that all models sold in the states are NAS.

I'll take the pictures this afternoon and post them this evening!
I will also ask the guys at the shop if they could determine which ECU it is but I'd be surprised if they did.

This is the same shop that refused to believe my IRD was going bad and replaced just about everything else. Which is probably what wrecked my transmission... i'm sure everyone else has these fun stories too.

I appreciate your help! Hopefully as the info here will help others as well.
 
Sorry to hear about that shop..

Regarding the pictures, can you make sure the pictures show the TCM part numbers?

Here is how to remove the engine acoustic cover to take a picture of the engine PCV pipes underneath.

You would think an Atlanta GA dealership sold a NAS model but at this point I strongly think we need to confirm that bit especially with the error codes you are receiving.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/v6-removing-engine-cover-pictures-245301.html
 
I am thinking about P1775 which is not supposed to be triggered in a NAS KV6 according to what I read. (I wonder how accurate those statement in Rave are..)

Maybe that code is triggered by a non-NAS TCM and not the ECU thus perhaps you now have a non-NAS KV6 TCM and thus why we would see that code in the code reader even thought you might have a NAS KV6 vehicle.

Having those part numbers and pictures should help figure out this half of the puzzle...

Thanks for the updates, I look forward to the next post...
 
Ok got pictures of everything I could think of and then some.

Engine shots.
engine1.jpg

engine2.jpg

engine3.jpg
 
The old Jatco TCM that matched the original transmission.
- note the number PR011, i thought this was supposed to match my original transmission which was PR005.

old_tcm.jpg
 
New-to-us TCM we bought that is supposed to have new omit Intermediate Speed Sensor software in it. ( getting this confirmed )

This is currently in the freelander throwing intermediate sensor data missing codes
newer-tcm.jpg
 
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The mechanic guy that's been wrenching on the car was not around at the time, but I talked to another guy that went with him on the last test ride when they saw the same codes happen again.

He said he was using a Matco pocket scanner while driving around.
Hope this helps solve some of the mystery.

I'm really amazed about how poorly Land Rover has documented revisions to their assembly / manufacturing. Then again I guess they have earned their reputation both good and bad.
 
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UHC500160 KV6 NAS 4A410063 to 4A999999
speed sensor removal?
UHC500110 KV6 NAS 3A225000 to 4A410062
Click to expand...

So obviously there is a difference in the TCM part numbers here but am I reading this right? It seems like this would be backwards.

UHC500110 KV6 NAS 3A225000 to 4A410062
Wouldn't this represent older vehicles before the transmission change?
 
I have not checked the latest Microcat (Landrover Catalog) but the parts I have listed were valid for 2009 which is well after the last year of the Freeloader 1.

The only theory I have that match the facts your reported and the conjecture on the part number for the tcm and intermediate speed sensor removal is this:


Your vehicle original TCM does not expect/ignores the signal for the intermediate speed sensor even if the pin out are present.

When your vehicle was assembled they took whatever transmission was ready due to something like a stock pile even though it already had intermedia speed sensor knowing the tcm would ignore it.


The new to you tcm expects an intermediate speed sensor and is throwing the code because of it.


The easy way to test this is to swap the tcm to your original one but with your new transmission then clear codes and make sure the battery is disconnected for a good 10 mins.


I am sure this is not what you would want to hear, but in the absence of any more documentation it is the only one I can think of that fit the facts.

The good news is you have everything at hand to test it. Please let me know if you already tested this.
 
I might be wrong, but if the new trany is missing the speed sensor, won't the TCM just substitute a default based on engine or road speed? I'm sure it'll still work, just the shift quality suffer.
 
zefrench said:
I have not checked the latest Microcat (Landrover Catalog) but the parts I have listed were valid for 2009 which is well after the last year of the Freeloader 1.

The only theory I have that match the facts your reported and the conjecture on the part number for the tcm and intermediate speed sensor removal is this:


Your vehicle original TCM does not expect/ignores the signal for the intermediate speed sensor even if the pin out are present.

When your vehicle was assembled they took whatever transmission was ready due to something like a stock pile even though it already had intermedia speed sensor knowing the tcm would ignore it.


The new to you tcm expects an intermediate speed sensor and is throwing the code because of it.


The easy way to test this is to swap the tcm to your original one but with your new transmission then clear codes and make sure the battery is disconnected for a good 10 mins.


I am sure this is not what you would want to hear, but in the absence of any more documentation it is the only one I can think of that fit the facts.

The good news is you have everything at hand to test it. Please let me know if you already tested this.
Click to expand...

I'm going to try to get up there today and try this. The shop originally refused to install the Transmission based on the different pin outs on the TCM connector.

If this does not work it may need
UHC500170 KV6 NAS 5A000001 to --------

But what you have written does make sense and it makes total sense why the LR dealers and everyone else would confirm the VIN number of the transmission SHOULD work with the the VIN of my vehicle.

I'll keep you posted. I do have to get some work done today but I'm ready to call it a half day and try this out!
 
Nodge68 said:
I might be wrong, but if the new trany is missing the speed sensor, won't the TCM just substitute a default based on engine or road speed? I'm sure it'll still work, just the shift quality suffer.
Click to expand...

I've tried it (TCM substitute) and it does work but a few times it shifted so horrible it put the car into F4 / limper mode.

Shifting was ok at times - so I would almost think the ECU needs to adjust to the new shifting points on the newer transmission - but at other times resulted in a large metal on metal bang of gears sound. This happened mainly when down shifting but also happened when coasting down a small hill.

We'll see what happens. I feel like we are getting close to solving this mystery!
 
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vihippo said:
I've tried it and it does work but a few times it shifted so horrible it put the car into F4 / limper mode.

Shifting was ok at times - so I would almost think the ECU needs to adjust to the new shifting points on the newer transmission - but at other times resulted in a large metal on metal bang of gears sound. This happened mainly when down shifting but also happened when coasting down a small hill.

We'll see what happens. I feel like we are getting close to solving this mystery!
Click to expand...

Did your mechanic do this to you? remove reverse bung in error. If he did they what you just said ......I've tried it and it does work but a few times it shifted so horrible it put the car into F4 / limper mode. Check here and you might want to phone them.http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/frequently-asked-questions/jatco-faq-s.html
 
vihippo said:
... but at other times resulted in a large metal on metal bang of gears sound. This happened mainly when down shifting but also happened when coasting down a small hill.

We'll see what happens. I feel like we are getting close to solving this mystery!
Click to expand...

I look forward to your test results. I so wish we could find some documents somewhere.. I look at service bulletins titles in Topix (I do not have a subscription) and nothing seems to match this intermediate sensor removal.

Regarding the bang sound on gear change, some people mistake the rear differential center mount sound it does when failed with transmission issues.

Do you know if yours was changed? The rubber in the bushing of the mount always seems to goes after so many years in any Freelander I have read/heard about.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f69/rear-diff-mount-replacement-how-guide-101774.html
 
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