JATCO Automatic Gearbox

Best to look in Rave.

The Mad Hat Man said:

Best to look in Rave.

Click to expand...

Says 'with engine running'.

That oil is really dirty for an 11K box I would think, was this a new box or reconditioned, either way you would think new fluid would have been used. Maybe this is how it looks after 11k? If it was new Its had a very hard 11k

Did you cycle through all the gears before the level check? Maybe this pumps fluid somewhere else.(less to drain). I would follow these steps myself.

I would think if all was working before hand, and you just replaced the same amount that came out you should be ok, but then the question is was it right in the 1st place.

I will be changing mine at some point so will keep this thread updated with fluid amounts and pics.

Is there no way of making your own dip stick? Just put maybe a small metal ruler down the fill hole??

O and good Luck.

JonFre said:

Only remove the oil level plug with the engine running.


Are you quite sure of this? On other boxes - not Jatco - I have always switched off to check the level.

Click to expand...

Hi. The haynes manual say the following. I can't find it in the maintencance maintenance auto jatco section of the rave. I'm tempted to drop the oil out to see if 4.19L spills out again. If it does, it proves I've not over filled it.

Automatic fluid level check.

The fluid level must be checked with the fluid at a temperature of 35 to 45 degrees C. Measure the temperature of the fluid using a thermometer through the oil filler aperture on the top of the transmission.

With the fluid at the appropriate temperature, position the vehicle over an inspection pit, on vehicle ramps, or jack it up, but make sure it is level. Release the retaining screws and remove the transmission undertray.

Start the engine and move the selector level from P through all the gear positions for 2 to 3 seconds, then return it to the P position.

With the engine still running, remove all traces of dirt from around the level plug. Unscrew the plug and allow any excess fluid to drain off. Discard the drain washer, a new one must be fitted.

If no fluid spills out, pull of the filler plug from the top of the transmission, and add fluid until it just begins to spill from the level hole.

Move the selector from P through each gear position and back to P. Allow any excess fluid to spill from the level hole.

Wipe the level plug with a clean rag fit the new washer. Clean the area around the level plug opening the refit the plug, complete with the washer, tightening to the specified torque. [14Nm] Refit the engine/transmission undertray, and where necessary, lower the vehicle to the ground. Refit the filler plug.

Hi jedi

My answers in blue:

That oil is really dirty for an 11K box I would think, was this a new box or reconditioned, either way you would think new fluid would have been used. Maybe this is how it looks after 11k? If it was new it's had a very hard 11k
New oil would have been used. A main dealer did the box change. They spill the oil when removing the auto anyway. Hard life? It&'s done 150 miles off road and the rest on tarmac. I think the brown is an additive they fitted when I took it back with squealing problems. This is not something which should have been added. The box was reconditioned, but this means it taken apart, new bits replace those damaged and put back together. They hydro test them on a bench normally. Essentially setting it working on a rig I think.

Did you cycle through all the gears before the level check? Maybe this pumps fluid somewhere else.(less to drain). I would follow http://www.myfreelander.co.uk/Transmission/mainprobs4.htm steps myself. Yes I did cycle the gears on the selector.

I would think if all was working before hand, and you just replaced the same amount that came out you should be ok, but then the question is was it right in the 1st place. I'm wondering the same. Also wondering if coolant would make the red auto oil brown?

I will be changing mine at some point so will keep this thread updated with fluid amounts and pics. Measure what drains out, then refill, before attempting to check the level. This way you have a backup plan if it all goes wrong. Mine was 4.19L. Main dealer had me convinced at the time the oil level is very precise. Not so sure on this now. They seem to go a long way to get it to the correct temp, to rule out fluid epansion due to temp.

Is there no way of making your own dip stick? Just put maybe a small metal ruler down the fill hole?? No. The valves are directly below the filler hole. Even if you go at an angle, my thermometer at 12cm long easily hits something in the way. Shame really.

Hippo just found this from another forum, Dealers don`t always know what there doing either, Thats why I stopped taking my Golf to VW. have a read.

Re the advice many thanks and i do take it onboard. I have just come back from the garage and yes he had all the diagnostic equipment he has even done full diagnostic checks on my engine and climate control as well as the gearbox.
As soon as i got there he plugged it in to check the temperature and his first words were i bet you there is to much fluid in, it happens every time we do one off these Jatco box's, because they are filled at the wrong temperature. Sure enough a litre of fluid came out of the level hole ( which is under the gearbox) you go through all the gears first to make sure all the galleries are filled up. Then to show he was right he put the fluid back in and let the temperature get to the next level, again a litre came out, we returned it and sure enough the same amount came out again. Proving my box had a litre to much fluid in and you could see where it had run down the casting from refill tube over time.
We then dropped the old fluid and put 4 litres of new in and went through the same process and in the end when the fluid stopped coming out of the level hole at the correct temperatures and gearbox moved through the gears, we had 1/2 a litre left so only 31/2 litres went in. At least i have peace of mind it has been done and correctly. One word of warning i have the Rave disc and the level hole does not look to be in the same place as it really is. It is a i think Allan key only very small Dia and is on the bottom of the casing not where you would think on the side, by all accounts internally a tube connects to it. So the saga ends, I will be honest it has not made any significant difference but i feel better. Plus he did find another fault the Lambda sensor has a sleight fault but not one bad enough to put the warning light on or effect running, every thing else was OK. Plus with it on a proper ramp had a real good look under the car exhaust is double skinned and is all in one the first skins have gone but the second skins look fine, will need to be replaced later but OK for now, I took this chance to put grease on all the brake pipes as well. So I now know in what condition my car is in and what in the future needs doing. Many thanks all members for the contribution. basham (tony)

Hippo
How did you get on in the end? was it over filled? Is it all working fine now?

It's all ok now. Thanks for asking.

I've set the auto oil level to the correct level, and it's working ok. Done about 50 miles on it making sure it's all ok. It also restarts ok and drives ok when hot too, which is a good sign.

LR part no for oil STC50531 for LRN402 Jatco auto oil 1L
Drain plug washer TEB100040L

I've used the correct auto oil for the Jatco sold by land rover main dealers. It's approx. £10 plus vat, but the price does vary a little and it's considered expensive. I bought else where in 20L drums a lot cheaper per L.

Other oils are available. Check it's suitable before use. Be careful.

The correct service schedule for the auto oil change on the Freelander 1 auto is every 60k miles, and every 60k there after. This is the 5th year service. Replacing the oil early has on many occasions cured all sorts of issues. The correct procedure has to be followed. Both Haynes and Land Rover make a big deal out of this, so there must be a good reason.

My auto seems to have been over filled by 0.7L of oil. When setting the oil level, after leaving to drain when cold, it takes 3.56L to set the level correctly using the correct procedure. I did this by adding 3.5L of oil first, then added 3x 0.09L of oil with a syringe. 0.21L fell out. This was all done at the correct auto fluid temp. I didn't bother measuring the internal temperature resistor via the barrel connectors as mine seems be a little out from what the spec sheet suggests. I assume this is because the auto computer is still attached in circuit at the other end. Disconnecting the auto's computer when the engine's running isn't something you should do. I used Freelance's idea of poking a thermometer through the filler hole. Takes about 5 minutes on engine tick over only, from cold, to get the auto oil up to the correct temp range of 35 to 45 degrees C. If you were to drive the vehicle for 5 to 10 minutes, like they advise in the Haynes manual, then you'd have auto oil at too higher a temperature to check the level. Don't follow any advice to drive it. On tick over it seems the engine coolant heats up the auto oil as they both pass through the auto oil cooler. The oil cooler/coolant temperature rises ahead of the auto oil. It's important to note the engine must be running in order to check the oil level on the Jatco. This allows the oil pump to fill the torque converter, whilst you set the correct oil level. Have to admit I was nervous of this when I tried setting the auto oil level the first time.

I used this thermometer: https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ht-wide-range-probe-thermometer-l55an

All my measurements were done with a measuring cylinder and syringe. The car was on level ground. Tyres at the correct psi. If I've replaced 3.56L of oil, when the auto is filled from dry with 8.5L (source rave disk) then my fluid change of 3.56L has replaced 42% of the existing oil (3.56 / 8.5). Hence 4.93L or 58% (1 - (3.5 / 8.5)) of the original oil is still left in the auto after the first change, out of 8.5L in total. If you were to do a second oil change after running the car to mix the oil, then (1 - (3.56 / 8.5)) x 4.93 = 2.9L of original oil left, out of 8.5L in total. A third oil change would leave (1 - (3.56 / 8.5)) x 2.9 = 1.7L of original oil left, out of 8.5L in total. This is all because a certain amount of oil stays present in the torque converter when the engines switched off. Each subsequent oil change should still set the level correctly as per the instructions. This is all based on the oil being well mixed prior to the next change.

I was correct in saying the later Freelander 1 Jatco auto J506E uses a 14mm hex bolt for the oil level check. Previously they used a 5mm Allen key. The bolt has a thread about 12mm long. Both are 14Nm and the drain plug is 24mm 45Nm. Both are located on the bottom of the auto as shown in the photo below. I plan to do 2 further oil changes to flush out the additive the garage incorrectly put in my auto. It's a good idea to have a look round all the cooler oil pipes to see if you've got a slow auto oil leak while your checking the level. I also understand there's an oil filter inside the Jatco. This is not a serviceable item. The auto needs taking apart to change this. If your auto needs this doing, then there's a good chance there's something gone horribly wrong which will also need the auto taken apart to be fixed.

Prior to the following Haynes instructions, I drained my auto of approx 3.5L and refilled it with 3.5L new oil.

Automatic fluid level check.

The fluid level must be checked with the fluid at a temperature of 35 to 45 degrees C. To achieve this temperature, take the vehicle for a drive of approximately 5 to 10 miles. [DON'T DRIVE THE FREELANDER 5 TO 10 MILES (OR ANY MILES) DURING THE LEVEL CHECK. THE AUTO WILL BE TOO HOT. SEE EXPLANATION BELOW IN RED] [I didn't do this as this distance is far too long so the oil will be a lot hotter than it should be for the level check. I left mine on tick over form cold as per the LR preferred method. Took approx 5 minutes to reach the correct temperature which I measured. Time will vary depending on ambient temperature and if it's a v6 or Td4. So best to measure it. If you don't have something to measure the temperature like a thermometer, then buy one.] If possible, the temperature of the fluid should be checked with a thermometer through the oil filler aperture on the top of the transmission. [I checked the temp through the filler aperture too]

With the fluid at the appropriate temperature, position the vehicle over an inspection pit, on vehicle ramps, or jack it up, but make sure it is level. Release the retaining screws and remove the transmission undertray.

Start the engine and move the selector level from P through all the gear positions for 2 to 3 seconds, then return it to the P position.

With the engine still running, remove all traces of dirt from around the level plug. Unscrew the plug and allow any excess fluid to drain off. Discard the drain washer, a new one must be fitted.

If no fluid spills out, pull of the filler plug from the top of the transmission, and add fluid until it just begins to spill from the level hole.

Move the selector from P through each gear position and back to P. Allow any excess fluid to spill from the level hole.

Wipe the level plug with a clean rag fit the new washer. Clean the area around the level plug opening the refit the plug, complete with the washer, tightening to the specified torque. [14Nm] Refit the engine/transmission undertray, and where necessary, lower the vehicle to the ground. Refit the filler plug.

Don't drive the Freelander for 5 to 10 miles during the level check as some sources suggest. As said in an earlier post this is not the right thing to do as the auto and it's oil will get too hot. The auto oil level check should be done from cold, using the engine on tick over to heat the auto's oil, to the correct temperature.

Why? Auto oil specification's include anti foaming chemicals. The chemical's stop the auto oil from foaming up when it's pumped at pressure around the auto. If the oil foams it will aerate the oil. Think of an aero chocolate bar where the chocolate contains lots of small air bubbles, which expand the volume of chocolate. This is not good for an auto. When the engine is left on tick over the auto oil is gently pumped around the oil pipes and solenoid's etc to prime the system full of oil and purge out any air. The rest of the oil sits in the bottom of the auto where the level check pipe is located. Cycling through the gear lever options assists this process as it makes sure all solenoids are filled/primed with oil. When the auto oil is at the correct temperature the level check can be done. Driving the Freelander may cause the auto oil to partially aerate as well as get too hot. Hence why it shouldn't be driven during the level check. Source = Land Rover direct.

I don't approve of any other text detailing the method of an auto oil change on a Freelander 1 on LandyZone or any other web site, unless I have personally posted my agreement to the method in my own post on that thread. Any references to myself, my photo's or my Hippo username by other members has nothing to do with me.

Freelander 1 auto oil filler plug:


P9171138 qnOWsHc

Freelander 1 auto drain plug, new washer and drain aperture:


P4041801 abVVc6H


P4041803 2N5b2Vc

Freelander 1 auto drain plug and level check plug locations:


P4051811 MNkPShY

New oil should look like this:


P4041804 ZqYTiSb

2001 Freelander 1 v6 auto:


P9171139 HuQYElR

Excellent write up, I am getting closer to draining my auto fluids, I have a few other jobs to do on the car 1st, Rear diff pinion seal, crank case breather(still waiting for it), rear drums need to come off to see what surprises lay in wait for me there. Rear door piston thingy needs popping back in place, and the passanger door lock needs attention as its locks but will not unlock with the remote.

Then the dreaded Auto fluid change, I`m leaving the best till last. I dipped a screw driver into the fill hole to see what fluid was in there, and to my horror it was what looked like a clear coloured fluid I could be opening a can of worns with this one. Mine has the allen key check level bolt by the way, does this mean my auto box is the old type? what differences are there between the new and old? I think I may still have the origonal Auto in there, as it does not look as clean as yours underneath Mr Hippo.

When I say new/old Jatco auto with the Allen key nut, this doesn't mean it's old as in out of date. The level plug difference is a simple change they must have done at some point. The later models seem to have the hex bolt. Other than that the auto's are the same I think. There may be natural changes over the lifetime of the supply of the auto. Simple things like doing things a little differently. Or different supplier parts inside. Other than that they're the same.

Happy Freelandering.

A har!! I quite like the allen key aproach. It stands out form all the Hex bolts so there should be no mistake in identifying it.

Nice write ups you two ( with a little help from the rest), my auto has started giving me a kick in the back when it changes up and I have been wanting to check/change the fluid for some time. I will now give it go as per your write ups. Thanks Ian

Hi Hippo

Hows the auto box preforming after your fluid change? All good I hope.

I`ve just been speaking to a Landrover Independant, and he says he does not touch the Auto box`s, as they can be problematic. He sends the box to a gear box specialist, to be repaired, He says if he has to top them up he tops up with Dextron II, but a refill will need the Texaco N402 stuff, as its a very highly specced oil, or so he says.

I will be buying some Texaco N402 stuff, when I find a dealership that sells it in 1 liter bottles, and not 25 liter drums.

And let you know how i`m getting on.

Jedi

Auto’s ok. Thanks for asking. Noticed the gearshift is a little smoother as well. May do the next oil flush at the weekend if I get time. I plan to do 3 in total.

Had a small problem with it when the wiring harness barrel connectors opened up. The clip is broken so I fixed it as below with some hose clips and a tie wrap. When it happened I lost drive in forwards gears, but reverse was ok. Also the dreaded F4 flashing on the dash. Gearshift 1st to 2nd went with a bang. This was nothing to do with the oil level, which Is still ok. Nearly pooped ma’self though. When my first auto leaked the oil level dropped and air got in the torque converter. Gear shift went with a bang too. Hence I thought it had leaked again. But it’s all ok now the connectors are mated.

If your having problems sourcing the proper oil, then order LRN402 from a land rover main dealer. Part code STC50531 for 1L. £12 each approx. Not sure if your in the UK. I think this part number will be world wide. You can also buy it online in 20L tub's far cheaper then Land Rover sell it.

As far as auto’s go, the Jatco is no worse than the next. Often on the web one person may say they’re bad, as theirs failed. My original one did when it leaked from every seal. I’ve met many Jatco auto owners who haven’t had a fault with theirs. Some well over 100k miles.

Auto’s seem to be a specialist component on cars. It seems the majority of garages replace the whole unit, rather than taking them apart and stripping to find what’s failed. This is very time consuming, and a lot of messing ordering parts whilst the customer wants their car back. Hence they prefer to exchange the auto for new or a reconditioned one. An auto expert like ashcroft will strip the auto, replace parts as needed, and probably those they feel are most likely to fail, then put it back together. They local knowledge to the auto will be considerably more than a typical garage. My local independent is well known for performance upgrades, and boasts about how good they are. Can never quote a price face to face. Can’t change the v6 cam belts as they don’t have the £600 fitting kit (available from Laser Tools for £150 approx or ebay). I know some have done it without, but garages prefer to do it with. When asked to replace my auto I found out they would take the car and put it in another garage, for them to do the work. So I’ve lost faith in them. And they charge £3 per hour more than the main stealer. So it pays to shop around and take advice from many sources.

I’ve just bought him some general grabber 215/65R16 tyres, which will arrive tomorrow. Will be taking him off road in Wales late July if he continues to behave himself. Also going to polish and wax when I have time.


DSC01080 PnqqrjE


P4091814 xNZ7oFG

Well finaly got round to changing my ATF fluid today, seems to still work ok, not noticed much difference, but have only driven it around the block really.

This is what I did.

1. I checked where original the fluid was at, I got it up to temp and verified with one of these, £1 from the pound shop, its for humans but works for landys too.

I just pushed the end near the drain plug on the outside of the gear box casing, It measured 37-40 c, and with the engine running having gone through all the gears, I removed the level check plug. Nothing spectacular happened here, just a bit of oil, it resembled spit more than anything else, so level must have been ok..........However once the engine was stopped around 1 liter drained out of the level check plug.....So this must be why you need to check with the engine running.

2. As 1 liter had already dropped out of the level check plug I thought I`d just drain it and put back what came out. So I opened up the drain plug and let it drain out.......What came out all together was just over 3 liters, according to my old simons was bottle tub, not sure how accurate the markings are, but here it is.......


3. I then refilled with around 3.2 liters of Landrover ATF 402.......I started the engine and while waiting for it to get back up to temp, I ran through all the gears.... I then opened up the level check plug and nothing, so I topped up with another 1/2 a liter and it started to trickle out of the level check plug, once it has stopped or came to a dribbling spit, I fitted the level check plug. job done.

So in total 3.2L came out 3.9L went in roughly....maybe there is a difference in what comes out depending what temp you measure at, I measured at the lower end of the scale 37-40c

The new oil is like a cherry cough syrup, and smelt to me like detol. The old oil had a very similar smell but not as strong, but also smelt a bit like "caps" the things you put in kids toy guns and they go bang. It had the caps burnt smell. I`ve no idea how long the fluid was in there for, but I reckon it still good to go. My freebie has done 92k now, maybe on the origonal fluid????.

I may after a few hundred miles do it again, as i really dont feel happy just changing 3.9 of the 8 liters in there, and I really don`t like mixing old oil with new, but what can you do.

I think as long as you have the right temp when you check the fluid its a pretty simple job, apart from the mess. I just hope i`ve done it right, I suppose only time will tell....any excess will just drain off if your at the right temp, and the engine needs to be running.

Just done my 2nd fluid flush, another 3.5 L came out and went in, fluid still dark in colour, but there was a tinge of red in there, maybe by the 3rd flush it`ll be all red...Mmmmmmmmm!!

good job I managed to get 20 L of this for £40 otherwise I would have only done the 1 flush

Do you think this fluid expands with heat or shrinks with heat? I measured level at 40c, just wondering where my 500ml is? RAVE says refil 4L twice now I`m around the 3.5L mark?

P.S. just thought, maybe my simmons was bottle is slightly out, will check tomorrow.

Where did you get the 20L for £40? Should be £150 ish in the UK + post.

Just follow the steps above and oil level will be correct. If it's out by 0.5L this could be because it was incorrect before. Try testing the jug you used before to see if it measures correctly. Not sure how much the oil expands with heat. I wouldn't have thought it were that much. The instructions are quitre specific on temp range, so there must be a reason.

I got lucky a garage near me had some spare knocking around, I only wanted 6 liters, but they gave me the lot for £40. I did`nt think twice...........

Yeah I must be doing it right, as when too much is in there it comes straight out the level check plug, when it stops running out, I put back the allen key bolt.

I was just wondering whether it expands with heat? as if I was to do this cold, maybe more fluid would be needed to get it to flow out.

I would guess like most liquids it expands with heat. By how much I don't know. I did wonder if there’s something going on inside the auto we don’t know about. Failing that the oil will be nice and runny at 35 degrees so it will flow round the auto ok.

I know when I first had auto problems the main dealer was adamant that they would only do a level check if they had the car over night. That way they knew it was warned up from cold in the morning. It was a case of them refusing to do it, if the above wasn’t complied with. The chap doing the talking on service had actually been on a Jatco course about the auto and talked as if he knew his stuff.

Hmmmmmm, maybe a valve opens in the jatco box between these temps? changing the levels? who knows............... I watched some videos on torque converters on youtube the other day very interesting, it seems its this part that stresses the oil most, its great how they work, a bit like a turbo but with oil and functions as the clutch.