I've brought a ringer!

Starkers · Dec 4, 2018

In an moment of amateur hour excitement I recently brought myself a scruffy but running Series 2/3 mongrel. The main reason for the purchase was to get my hands on the galvanised chassis to be used on another Series 3. Having become rather attached to this fine vehicle I had decided that it could become another project rather than a donor vehicle. After getting all excited about owning two Landrovers I decided that I'd check what the chassis number means. At this point, despite being reasonably intelligent bloke, I realised I'd been a bit of a knob.

Schoolboy error:

No1 - Turns out that my 88" diesel was originally a 109" 6 cylinder petrol!
No2 - The VIN plate on closer inspection is obviously not original (It does match the V5 though).
No3 - Engine number doesn't match V5, but is listed as a diesel.

Everything is now stripped down so it's decision time. Do I:

1 - Continue with original plan and use as a donor vehicle and not waste any more time or money.
2 - Rebuild, enjoy and accept that its a dodgy bitsa and that I won't ever get back what I paid for it.

Is there anyway of legitimising this type of vehicle. Seems a shame to dismattle and consign a running vehicle to the knackers yard.

rob1miles · Dec 4, 2018

Does the chassis have a number? That may lead to another vehicle, the problem comes if that was stolen, if not then you may be able to turn it back into that. The alternative is to see whether the DVLA will accept a change of wheel base then change the engine details later. The problem is that its unlikely that someone would turn a LWB into a SWB and rivet a plate on unless they were up to no good. Another question is when it was done. If it looks like the chassis and plate are recent then you are really looking at contacting the DVLA and Police and looking to get your money back Years ago a work colleage bought a ringer and realised a few weeks later. He compained to the seller and the Police, the seller came stright round a refunded him (with Police present) , it apprears so long as there was no sale under false pretences there wasn't crime if the vehicle was kept off the road (??!) and couldn't be linked to one that was stolen. If it was done years ago tracing the orginal would be impoosible and i suspect its a case of "water under the bridge" in legal terms and you can update the identity. Tax exempt would probably be out as its a "major modification", you can but ask.

Starkers · Dec 4, 2018

The chassis doesn't have a number. I know for certain that the vehicle has been in its currently format since 2007. As to when it was modified I would say a long time before that.

The V5 states in the taxation class that it is a Historic Vehicle. Does this mean that someone has been the through the DVLA rigmarole previously or does this change automatically once the vehicle reaches a certain age and a new V5 is issued.

My Old Landy · Dec 4, 2018

I believe you have to apply for historic vehicle status. It's only mot exemption that's rolls on after 40 years...

rob1miles · Dec 4, 2018

The application for historic is just a request to change taxation class based on the date of manufacture the DVLA hold, there are no checks. After the electronic MOT came in that would pick up issues like this because the vin has to be typed into the DVLA database and matched to the description and engine number. Has it been MOTed since the on-line MOTs came in? Is it posible the seller was waiting for it to be MOT exempt before selling it? The problem you have is that you will have to make a declaration when you renew the tax to the effect (I can't recall the exact wording) that it has "not been subject to substancial modification" or something like that. The definition of modification is a bit open but a change from LWB to SWB would in every interpretation be a notifiable change. Either the paperwork has to change from LWB to SWB or the vehicle has to change from SWB to LWB. Obviouly the paperwork will cost a lot less if its possible but I fear could end with a Q plate.

Starkers · Dec 4, 2018

Thanks for your replies. It has been MOT'd on the new digital system.

rob1miles · Dec 4, 2018

Curiouser and curiouser! Nay clues in the log book for engine number changes and dates?

Starkers · Dec 4, 2018

Been online and paid to check vehicle reg/details. This would have been a better idea before I brought it.

Listed as first registered Jan 1967
Shows as manufactured Jan 2001!
There is a listed colour change from Green to Blue in 1983 (It still is blue)
The reg is not listed as stolen (police or insurance)

Blackburn · Dec 4, 2018

This might be worth looking at
eBay item number:
273590642848
Even traders selling V5 and chassis bits nowadays Herbert love and junkyard 34?????

Rodeo Joe · Dec 4, 2018

If I was you I'd make one really decent vehicle from the 2 of them then stick all the other bits together and sell it as a non id breaker......or keep the bits as spares.

Colthebrummie · Dec 5, 2018

I didn't bother registering my 109 as historic when it came of age, I taxed it as usual and after a few weeks the lovely DVLA sent me a new log book with the historic vehicle classification and a letter explaining that they would send me a refund for the tax, which I did.

Col

Colthebrummie · Dec 5, 2018

Colthebrummie said:
I didn't bother registering my 109 as historic when it came of age, I taxed it as usual and after a few weeks the lovely DVLA sent me a new log book with the historic vehicle classification and a letter explaining that they would send me a refund for the tax, which I did.

Col

I mean, which they did.
I think if you contact DVLA about the discrepancy it will almost certainly lose its historic status, I don't think the police will be interested, they're not that bothered about burglaries anymore. Could it be that at some point a previous owner put a second hand bulkhead in complete with vin plate?

Col

suburban · Dec 5, 2018

I would go with the original plan and use it as a donor vehicle

dag019 · Dec 5, 2018

If it has been in its current state since 2007 then even if the vehicle is stolen it is long enough ago now that the police are unlikely to be interested and tracing the original owner will be virtually impossible. Especially as a galv chassis will have no number on it so is hard to identify what it's original ID was. Therefore if it was me, and I know this suggestion will split opinion, I would not worry about its origins and instead look at acquiring a correct ID.
This can be done buy buying a "scrap" SWB or as has been pointed out above some of the breakers will sell "chassis" with ID. You can then rebuild the vehicle you have an ID for with a new galv chassis (which you have) and donor parts from the other vehicle (which you also have).
This will leave you with two vehicles which are correctly registered and the V5 and vin plate for a 109 6 cylinder which you can "reuild" at a later date or record as scrapped.

Land Raver · Dec 5, 2018

I would also just use it as a doner vehicle. You've effectively bought a nice galvanised chassis and some decent parts. It's lost it's history and true identity and I can't see how you're going to change the wheelbase on the reg document without opening a can of worms.

The vehicle essentially has lost a lot of value due to it's sketchy paperwork - you can't resell it but it still holds great value to you in quality chassis and parts.

Starkers · Dec 6, 2018

Decision made and lesson learnt. I'm going to use as a donor vehicle and spend my time and effort bringing my 1981 ex Forestry Commission Series 3 back to life after not being MOT'd since 1992. Thankfully this one has matching numbers!

Thanks for the replies.

Rodeo Joe · Dec 6, 2018

Starkers said:
Decision made and lesson learnt. I'm going to use as a donor vehicle and spend my time and effort bringing my 1981 ex Forestry Commission Series 3 back to life after not being MOT'd since 1992. Thankfully this one has matching numbers!

Thanks for the replies.

And you will have loads of bits to sell off afterwards to make a few quid back, the price of second hand parts is getting out of hand.........except for servo pedal boxes of course which are 10 a penny, I would be kind enough to take yours off your hands if you like....

TheQ · Dec 6, 2018

Starkers said:
Decision made and lesson learnt. I'm going to use as a donor vehicle and spend my time and effort bringing my 1981 ex Forestry Commission Series 3 back to life after not being MOT'd since 1992. Thankfully this one has matching numbers!

Thanks for the replies.

By which time you'll have transferred all those bits then it will have all those different numbers.

Retroanaconda · Dec 6, 2018

Starkers said:
Decision made and lesson learnt. I'm going to use as a donor vehicle and spend my time and effort bringing my 1981 ex Forestry Commission Series 3 back to life after not being MOT'd since 1992. Thankfully this one has matching numbers!

Thanks for the replies.

Any pics of your ex-FC Series III?

Starkers · Dec 7, 2018

Retroanaconda said:
Any pics of your ex-FC Series III?

I've brought a ringer!

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