Is it the damn headgasket ????

Own the car for 8 weeks, managed 500 miles in it, coolant was to max, but fan came on today when i got to work

opened up the bonnet, and nowt in there - added 2 litres into the system to get it back to max

checked oil and there is some whitish foam on it


which i believe indicated headgasket is going / gone ????

The car supposedly had a new engine 17,000 miles ago (last october), which i have a garage bill for from the previous owner do either its a fake, or there is something else wrong

any advice please - im going to try to get shot i reckon but need to know if it could be anything simpler to fix ???

Heat wise - guage has stayed at mid or below , hasn't gone over once

yep sounds like head gasket to me. what engine?

you'll never guess !

1.8 petrol

would there be any come back on the garage ??? the new (reconditioned engine) was fitted in October 2009 and has only had 17,000 miles put on it

i know i was not the person that had it fitted, but I do have the receipt from them stating the work has been done

you'll be lucky m8, most garages round here won't give a warranty on a 1.8 or a v6 head gasket because they know they will be lucky if it lasts the warranty period. phone em and ask but i have a sneaky feeling what the answer will be.

I'd say perhaps someone knew the head gasket was on its way out again, and sold onto the garage. It's not unknown for a headgasket to fail after 20k miles on these.

If you are not willing to fix it properly, you should firstly check the obvious places (radiator, hoses, water pump, inlet manifold gasket etc) and if there is a confirmed internal issue, try some Seal-Up or similar. Not something I'd do myself except where a customer expressly asked for that route, but if you wanted to delay the repair, it could be an option.

mechanics saying to run it for a week and keep an eye, now i have topped system up

new mls head gasket was supposedly fitted ot teh engine 17,000 ago and its not putting out any white smoke, or having issues at idle / misfiring - so he thinks it may well be something else
- especailly as the temp guage hasnt gone aboe half way at any juncture

when i went to put teh new coolant in there were single bubbles coming up into expansion tank - i assume this is just due ot the coolant draining into the radiator ?

under normal operation - how much if any coolant should i expect teh engine to use / burn ???

UPDATE:

Topped filler tank up to max line on thursday - and have not used it since

Checked today and the coolant level has gone from max to just above the min mark

Car is still running / starting fine - jjust done 10 miles with no major issues

Any ideas ???

If coolant is disappearing without you driving the car then you might have a coolant leak though this doesn't explain the frothy oil problem. Either it's just some mayonaise from limited running & the oil not being warmed up enough to drive off normal condensation or it's hgf. Get a sniff test done & pressure test as well on the coolant system to tell for sure. Also be aware that if the job was done well with the uprated gasket as you believe, then liner slippage might be an issue as well.

thanks chromium - coolant seems to be fine in driving conditions (just done 15miles to work / 30minutes - engine warms up to half way fine, and sits there - no visible lose of coolant)

That said I checked last night when I got home - all was fine - this morning when I checked it was close to the min line so had to top up again

So it does seem to be more time related, that use related - will book it into the garage AGAIN !

have just had a look at it, my knowledge is limited, but the top hose to the rad is piping, hot - but the bottom one is cold - which i belive suggests a blocked rad ???

probelm being this still doesnt explain where the coolant isgoing / leaking from - i cant visually see anything

get the garage to pressure test the system, it might show something up, or you could get the front of the car on ramps and have a proper look, check for water droplets, stains where the water could be running from, check all the hoses for getting soft and crappy, the metal pipe that runs along the back of the engine.
the top pipe should get hot and the bottom stays cooler, thats how a cooling system works m8

elredso said:

have just had a look at it, my knowledge is limited, but the top hose to the rad is piping, hot - but the bottom one is cold - which i belive suggests a blocked rad ???

probelm being this still doesnt explain where the coolant isgoing / leaking from - i cant visually see anything

Click to expand...

I have the EXACT SAME problem with my KV2.5 Freelander motor....The coolant started disappearing from the overflow bottle and no sign of coolant leak anywhere! The temp. started to climb towards the top but when I checked the radiator hoses, the top one is boiling hot and the bottom is barely warm and when I squeeze it, it feels empty (no coolant circulating)... I thought it could be a problem with the thermostat but I changed it recently with a new one. Also the fans do NOT come on when the temperature is climbing which indicates there is no hot coolant on the return bottom hose of the radiator to trigger the fans on....

BTW there is no appearance of coolant in the oil, no white smoke out of the exhaust....I get a lot of coolant back-pressure (coolant bubbling in the reservoir bottle) when the engine is starting to overheat...I have to fill up the bottle everytime I drive more than 5 miles!!

Serious coolant loss and no visible signs of where it's disappearing to...


ADDITIONAL INFO: I performed a cylinder Compression test on the front 3 cylinders (1, 3 and 5) and I got steady reading between 140-150 psi which would indicate a good head gasket for the front cylinders. I haven't done the test on the rears yet.

goyal99 said:

ADDITIONAL INFO: I performed a cylinder Compression test on the front 3 cylinders (1, 3 and 5) and I got steady reading between 140-150 psi which would indicate a good head gasket for the front cylinders. I haven't done the test on the rears yet.

Click to expand...

The compression test is only a test on combustion chambers. It will not indicate a leak between oil and water systems!
I dont have a petrol engine but have read a few posts about them, I seem to remember the v6 having a weak inlet manifold with ref to water leaking.
To be sure you really need a water/coolant system pressure test. This will tell you if the cooling system is actually leaking but it wont tell you the cause of the leak! A 'sniff' test could show up a head gasket failure.

I would say first thing to do is to check every hose and as much of the underbonnet area for signs of leaking before taking it to a garage for potential head gasket issues. Also check the coolant pressure cap, if thats not holding water will leak out there.

I do hope its not the famous head gasket. Good Luck.

ched999uk said:

The compression test is only a test on combustion chambers. It will not indicate a leak between oil and water systems!
I dont have a petrol engine but have read a few posts about them, I seem to remember the v6 having a weak inlet manifold with ref to water leaking.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand the reference of the weak inlet manifold and the coolant leaks.

The KV6 engine has a 2-piece inlet manifold - the aluminum short piece (with short runners) is bolted to the head with a gasket in between...This front inlet manifold gasket (cyls 1, 3 & 5) was replaced recently. The back-end plastic inlet manifold (with the long runners) has no gasket between the two connecting manifold pieces, just 3 rings sealing the plastic manifold....So I don't see how the coolant travel up the intake manifold...

Maybe someone can explain the "weak intake manifold" theory to understand it better.

Regards

goyal99 said:

I'm not sure I understand the reference of the weak inlet manifold and the coolant leaks.

The KV6 engine has a 2-piece inlet manifold - the aluminum short piece (with short runners) is bolted to the head with a gasket in between...This front inlet manifold gasket (cyls 1, 3 & 5) was replaced recently. The back-end plastic inlet manifold (with the long runners) has no gasket between the two connecting manifold pieces, just 3 rings sealing the plastic manifold....So I don't see how the coolant travel up the intake manifold...

Maybe someone can explain the "weak intake manifold" theory to understand it better.

Regards

Click to expand...

By the sound of it I was incorrect in suggesting it may be a weak inlet manifold. I thought I had read that the V6 inlet manifold was water-cooled and in between the 2 heads. So I must be thinking of another engine, sorry to add confusion.
Hope its not the head gasket. Good Luck.

goyal99 said:

I have the EXACT SAME problem with my KV2.5 Freelander motor....The coolant started disappearing from the overflow bottle and no sign of coolant leak anywhere! The temp. started to climb towards the top but when I checked the radiator hoses, the top one is boiling hot and the bottom is barely warm and when I squeeze it, it feels empty (no coolant circulating)... I thought it could be a problem with the thermostat but I changed it recently with a new one. Also the fans do NOT come on when the temperature is climbing which indicates there is no hot coolant on the return bottom hose of the radiator to trigger the fans on....

BTW there is no appearance of coolant in the oil, no white smoke out of the exhaust....I get a lot of coolant back-pressure (coolant bubbling in the reservoir bottle) when the engine is starting to overheat...I have to fill up the bottle everytime I drive more than 5 miles!!

Serious coolant loss and no visible signs of where it's disappearing to...


ADDITIONAL INFO: I performed a cylinder Compression test on the front 3 cylinders (1, 3 and 5) and I got steady reading between 140-150 psi which would indicate a good head gasket for the front cylinders. I haven't done the test on the rears yet.

Click to expand...

check this thread
www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/2-5-v6-head-gasket-not-opinions-72806.html

Hi Elredso,
Have a Rover 400 with the 1.6 K series for 9 years now, used mostly on short runs, that also had an ongoing mystery water loss for a long time (seven years).
Found some causes of my coolant loss were due to;
1. Duff silicone gasket between plastic inlet manifold and head - leaks at the ends - cheap fix but very hard to see any leak.
2. Dodgy expansion tank cap seal - never saw any leak but new cap helped also a cheap fix.
3. Leaking water pump - only found after other fixes when it got bad enough to see the drips after a run, also seen as levels normal after run but lower when cooled - not so cheap fix but also changed the cam belt at same time - worth doing.
4. Various small weeps around hose connections due to ally corrosion and hoses softening - remove, clean off, dry and refit - hylomar helps seal round rough ally.
5. My final solution (took 4 years to find) a porous head letting water thro' into 2 +3 inlet ports - changed head (2nd hand), had it skimmed, new bolts and MLS gasket (sleeves were all ok) now finally holds coolant level - no major top ups required last 16 months - still watching regularly tho'.
All of these are common to the 1.8K series in the FL and the pressure testing advice is sound - have it done.
Also remember seeing a thread on her re. a FL having coolant/oil contamination from the IRD cooling block that had sprung a leak (can be by-passed to check?).
Also a thread where the pipes taking coolant to the IRD cooler had corroded and leaked.
Not all K series coolant loss problems are HGF - search out and eliminate all the other causes first unless you see any overheating - by then it's probably too late and it will probably be (or cause) HGF.
Mayo in th sump - water in the oil - almost definitely HGF but could possibly be IRD cooler or ?
Hope this gives you a few leads - Good Luck