Is is Battery/ Alternator or Starter motor ?

Been having issues over the winter months with the engine turnover as its been quite slow to start and on some occasions it didnt so I decided to do a bit of investigation today. Granted, its a lot warmer now so the engine turns over a lot quicker, in fact at the turn of a key. Checked the battery whilst the engine was swtiched off and no auxilleries on and battery measured 12.6 volts. Checked battery again to see if alternator was working ok this time engine on, and a few auxilleries, heater, lights, and a bit of pedal power and battery measured 14.7 volts. This all appears fine to me suggesting battery and alternator are ok . Am I wrong ? Does this suggest that the starter motor is a little tired and may need replaced? I havent carried out any checks on earth straps etc as yet. Is this somthing I am just going to have to put up with in the winter and accept that the landy will struggle a bit to start ? Any ideas would be appreciated

Thanks

Take off and clean ya earths then see how it is.

Check all earths, cant do harm to stick on an extra one.

that only shows alternators charging

well you have proved that the alternator is working, The battery seems to be holding a charge. So clean check and maybe add an extra earth strap.
I find changing the oil before the Heavy winter helps as well.
Could be worth taking the starte motor off and cleaning it out it is amazing how much ****e gets in there

Fit a bigger/more powerful battery thats what i did to mine following advice on here much much better starting.
Was a 570ca now got a 1000cca battery

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/what-battery-everyone-running-their-200tdi-141098.html

Lynall

As Gratch and fyne say - earths are favourite!

Don't just be satisfied if they appear OK, take them off, clean up and reassemble with copper grease.

Pay particular attention to the main earth from the battery to the chassis, and the one from the engine to the chassis.

Also worth checking the connections to the starter - as Andy comments, it gets exposed to more than its fair share of road crap.

Issue with the earths (winter vs now), is when it's cold and damp the electrical resistance increases which sees less power getting through to the starter.

That's why boosting the battery charge can sometimes sort, but it isn't addressing the real problem. Similarly that's why in an emergency a liberal spray of WD40 helps - it chases the moisture away

Thanks for all the useful comments.

The battery I've got is a 3 year old optima red cap and seams fine. Anyone know what the output is on them ? Its been running a winch too with no probs so reluctant to change it for a more powerfull one just yet. I'll give the earth straps a clean up as youve suggested inc contact points and copper grease before I try anything else. If that fails I'll have a look at cleaning the starter motor too .

Ok if I did wish to add another couple of extra earth straps, where would be the best place to run them from ? Answers please in idiot form ie from where to where and attached to which bolts ???

Thanks again, much appreciated

Go from the bolt of the starter motor straight back to the battery thats the best route.
If you dont fancey that go from the starter to the chassis there are a few bolt coming through close by, Remove and clean the bolt up and the chassis before bolting it there.
I have one on my 300TDI 90 going from the battery to the exhaust hanger next to the battery box and from there to the back of the gearbox.

I changed mine as you will see the standard earth only has the chassis connector crimped on so over time the crap and water etc works it way in increasing the resistance of the cable. So when i replaced my earth i used tinned cable and solder connectors. Best thing i ever did.

Look here VWP - battery cables

Thanks Andy. Good advice, I'll give that a go.

yeah made a difference for me, my original earth was coverd in crap and oxidization where the chassis clamp was crimped on. It was an auto spark that told me that it will cause excessive resistance in the cable making the battery seem flat and the starter to turn very slow, Then all of a sudden it will spring in to life.

It didn't cost to much to replace the earths and was well worth it

Great Stuff ! The weekend looms, will let you know how i get on.

Ok. Traced the main earth from battery to chassis and then to gearbox. Gave each crimped connector a good clean with wire brush and reattached nice and clean. No engine earth found at all so added one near to engine mount. Removed positve wires to rear of starter motor and gave contacts clean. Removed starter motor and gave a clean too.

OK stupid question time. Andy mentioned on this thread to add a earth from starter motor bolt to battery or starter motor bolt to chassis. Being slightly dim here but which bolt ? There are two bolts (13mm) and one nut (15mm) which attach the starter motor direct to engine. There is the nut which attaches the positive feeds from (to turn startermotor) battery and my winch and finally a small nut on the outer casing (about 10mm ?) Which one is best for the earth to run from. Just trying to work out which is best ?

When starting the ignition there is an electrical whining noise which comes through the speakers which is consistent with the speed of the starter motor. When drivng, picking up speed, electrical whining noise increases in line with speed of engine and continues to be heard through speakers. This stops momentarily when clutch is depressed and starts again when released and engine in gear. Is this a separate earthing problem to do with the amplifier perhaps ? Its quite a high pitch grating noise so cant just put up with it.

Also just replaced the heater motor this weekend as the last one seized and gave up the go .However when you turn on the fan to whatever speed there is a delay of about 10 seconds before anything happens then it starts up at a reasonable speed but would expect a little more power. Is this another of the same earthing issues? Transistor perhaps ? ( Maybe should have started another thread for that) Apols for the q's but i really am crap with leccy.

Good work!

re starter motor earth - any of the bolts that fix the starter to the engine will be fine to run a separate earth from.

DO NOT under any circumstance run an earth from the bolts that attach the +ve feed - that would be seriously bad news!!!!!

Speaker whining noise is probably electrical interferance rather than poor earth - might need to fit a noise suppresor to the alternator. Would explain the speed relationship, but not sure why it would stop when you dip the clutch (unless engine speed is droping considerably)

Do a Google search on alternator suppression capacitor - this link (sorry it's Fiat, first I found) tells more

Audio Interference... How, Why and What to do! - The FIAT Forum

Ha Ha ! You know, I wouldnt have put it past me to try that and yes agreed, total disaster ! Funny about the whining noise from the speakers. I wonder if the seperate amplifier has packed in. Its quite old and drives the speakers and sub. Yes i did say said sub !! I quite like to hear the music in the landy ! Think I'll wire in speakers direct to back of head unit bypassing amplifier and see if that cuts out the interference. If not i'll look at the noise surpressor you mention Station House. Got any ideas about the heater issue at all ?

Funny re sub - mine has a radio/casette but no speakers! To be honest haven't bothered about it as would need to turn it up pretty loud, and would distract me from listening to the landy to check alls OK!

Noise suppressors by the way used to be a standard thing to fit when I first got into cars (in the 70s). Used to go on the alternator and ignition coil - suspect newer kit has more built in suppression so maybe less common now?

Heater fan - not sure. When I first turn my ignition (if the fans in the on positon) it takes a while to get going (and only goes fast once I blip the throttel), but somewhat quicker than 10 seconds.

In terms of air flow speed from the fan - they don't seem to get anywhere near modern cars. I can feel mine blowing, but it's more like having an asthmatic gerbil behind the dash than a high speed fan!

Tempted to advise if it works (even after a pause), leave it well alone for now!

My fan was crap and when i had dash apart last week the earth wire was hanging of the fan speed switch so it was earthing through the switch pivot, its went at least 100% faster with the earth wire back on i was actually quite impressed.


Lynall

Lynall

Hmmm, Come to think of it I have been fannying about in the dash of late. A while back I replaced the speed switch/lever thingy so you never know. I'll check it out tomorrow. Yet another thing to investigate. Oh and just incase anyone forgot and needed reminding the quality of some of Britpart bits is just a little dubious . Thats the 2nd heater blower motor I have fitted in as many months due to faulty internal wiring in the sealed unit.

Folks

Engine turning over now like a dream. Earths cleaned up from battery to chassis to gearbox, Added earth from starter motor to chassis and another from engine to chassis. Cleaned up all contact points including positives to back of starter motor and gave that a clean too and hey presto. Will hopefully sort out the slow or non existant turnover during the winter.
Thanks for help. Time for another post !

Great news - pleased for you Pal