Is a 110 Defender really the best Overland vehicle?

As above, really. Is a 110 really the best Overland vehicle around? It definitely seems the most popular choice, I assume because of its relative simplicity, popularity of spares and capacious load area.

However, a lot of posts and threads I read on other forums/guides suggest they can be quite tiring to drive over distance, and are cramped in the cockpit. Also, in hot climates they can be uncomfortably hot inside – I am talking earlier 200/300Tdi engined cars rather than the latest TD5/TDCi’s with air con, etc. And in the cold, the heater is pretty inadequate unless substantially upgraded. Is this all true? I have no firsthand experience!

Something else I have noticed is the increase in ‘newer’ air-sprung Land Rovers making such journeys – that couple who drove their L322 the length of Africa, and several Discovery 3’s and now 4’s are making their way all over the world in much more comfort than a Defender can ever offer.

All of which brings me back to my dilemma! I originally wanted a Range Rover Classic Tdi, which is impossible to find, but the supply of diesel Range Rover P38’s (DSE’s) is plentiful and tempting! Fitting a set of Arnott Gen III airbags will improve the air suspension in terms of reliability (lifetime guarantee!) and offroad capability (2” extra height available offroad), and they seem really popular in the US (and are used offroad!) but largely shunned over here.

I am getting really close to buying a car – hopefully on one of the two bank holiday weekends we have coming up – so need to make a decision. It will be used here in the UK for greenlaning weekends and towing my motorbike to trackdays. I am planning to do Overland/greenlaning trips across the Pyrenees and another down to and through Morocco next year too. After that, who knows – Iceland maybe? Budget for the base vehicle is £2,000 ideally, £2,500 if I really must.

So, what do I do?? Stick with tradition and go for the Defender 110 200Tdi or go for modern comfort and get a P38 DSE with all the toys?

ever been in a defender?
World apart from the inside of a rangey, even a classic. Rent a defender for a week and see what you think.

£2.5k wont get you a good reliable 110 base vehicle. It may be enough for a disco/rangie but 110's command a much higher rate. Others will tell you they got a 200tdi for £2k but how long before something breaks? how tired is it? how much will you need to spend to get it 'reliable'? just a thought.

the other reason they are the better LR overland vehicle is the payload. It can carry more than the others.

G

goonarmy said:

ever been in a defender?
World apart from the inside of a rangey, even a classic. Rent a defender for a week and see what you think.

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Nope, never! Driven a Series III...

MikeV8SE said:

As above, really. Is a 110 really the best Overland vehicle around? It definitely seems the most popular choice, I assume because of its relative simplicity, popularity of spares and capacious load area.

However, a lot of posts and threads I read on other forums/guides suggest they can be quite tiring to drive over distance, and are cramped in the cockpit. Also, in hot climates they can be uncomfortably hot inside – I am talking earlier 200/300Tdi engined cars rather than the latest TD5/TDCi’s with air con, etc. And in the cold, the heater is pretty inadequate unless substantially upgraded. Is this all true? I have no firsthand experience!

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The 110 is probably the best base vehicle for an overland vehicle.

I drive 110's in preference to a D2 even though the D2 is more comfortable.

If you have aircon when you get out of vehicle then you are hit with the proverbial sledge hammer. So in many ways you are better off without aircon

There is no real problem driving a 110 for several hours a day.

At £2-2,500 you will not get much in the way of a good 110. They hold their price extremely well.

Air suspension does NOT improve ground clearance. That is decided by tyre size.

Overland travel is about reliability of the vehicle and not by sheer offroad capability.


HTH


Brendan

leeds said:

The 110 is probably the best base vehicle for an overland vehicle.

If you have aircon when you get out of vehicle then you are hit with the proverbial sledge hammer. So in many ways you are better off without aircon.

At £2-2,500 you will not get much in the way of a good 110. They hold their price extremely well.

Air suspension does NOT improve ground clearance. That is decided by tyre size.

Overland travel is about reliability of the vehicle and not by sheer offroad capability.

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Thanks Brendan - you speak sense! Of course reliability is the most important factor, I guess I am just wondering if the P38 would be unreliable?

Out of interest, why do you choose the 110 over a Discovery 1 or 2?

Thanks for the advice - oh, and you have a PM!

Mike

P.S. On the air suspension front I was more meaning clearing the sills and chassis from large rocks and boulders, rather than the diffs which, as you say, require larger tyres to improve their clearance.

In terms of long term driver comfort - I fitted some Mud rails that moved my seat up and back. Now it's all day comfortable. I went from a D2 to the 110 too.

11o all the way check out my blog for our asia trip in 2009, we spent the best part of 4-6 hours each day in the 11o and i am 6'6' and 20 stone and with the mud rails and a smaller steering wheel had no both at all, infact i would rather drive the 110 than the wifes m3 bmw.

Ok Defenders are Cramped inside and if your a large framed fella then you will find that your always driving it with the window wound down, because its so tight in the cab.

There cold. they leak, they bounce your back into pieces and if its a standard vehicle then landrover discos etc are better off road.

Ive had series vehicles and my favourite and best was a lightweight.
Ive had disco,s and they are bloody unreliable.
Ive had a p38 and fitted all terrains and it was as good as anything off road but they too **** up on a regular basis.

best thing to do is test drive the lot.

If it was me i would buy a 110, but get ready cause comfort and power they dont have but spares are cheep and easy to replace. P38s have too many electronics and discos just break down all the time.
lol

I have a 1990 pre 200tdi the 2.5 diesel turbo lwb csw 2 door runs on any **** you want to put in it without complaing, using cheap veggie oil at the moment, no crappy ecu to f**k up parts are dirt cheap and available around the world stick some heavy duty springs and gas shocks buy a 2nd hand roof-rack tent complete full service (don`t forget the cam + all new belts + hoses) then off you go 30,000miles around the world carrying just standard spares, and ENJOY!!!

i'm in the wrong place to be saying this, get a 5 year old toyota van most people that do a serious over land trip ie uk to india or oz stay on roads. you may think you will be driving to the top of mountains but i reality you will break what ever you take if you try that. look at what the locals drive its all jap. its reliable and they can fix it. if you plan on getting your landy fixed at the side of the road you will have to go in a 21/4 petrol from 1980. in africa you will find it easy to get landy parts se asia forget it, you will be waiting for weeks to get the bits

I`ve had an air suspended range rover and a 110 and done thousands of miles in each, of course they differ in comfort but they are intended for different markets. To be brutally honest I wouldn`t spend £2500 on a base vehicle of either type for the uses you suggest, you just won`t get enough for your money in terms of a base on which to build and I would suspect will not acquire enough confidence in the vehicle in the process of buying and building it to try and do what you currently envisage, so its kind of self-limiting.
If you can spend a bit more, even if it means putting the trip off to save a bit more, then that would be my suggestion.
If you want to get the Defender bug out of (or possibly into) your system, book a LR experience day - Luton Hoo and MK are your nearest sites.I`ve not been to Luton (too new) but I did the advanced course at MK - and if you check out their website for late availability deals its much cheaper.

traveling bob said:

i'm in the wrong place to be saying this, get a 5 year old toyota van most people that do a serious over land trip ie uk to india or oz stay on roads. you may think you will be driving to the top of mountains but i reality you will break what ever you take if you try that. look at what the locals drive its all jap. its reliable and they can fix it. if you plan on getting your landy fixed at the side of the road you will have to go in a 21/4 petrol from 1980. in africa you will find it easy to get landy parts se asia forget it, you will be waiting for weeks to get the bits

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I agree with travelling Bob - an old Toyota High Ace or similar - asphalt all the way.

I enjoy Overland travel very much - but things have changed.

If you want to go off-road old style - try Slovenia or Croatia or Bosnia Hercegovina then via Montenegro and Albania to Greece, without paying any tolls.

There is a certain sense of achievement in taking a LandRover to or from Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Dubai for example - but the ex-pats who work there are coming home on holiday overland to do some sight-seeing in Europe with Mazdas, Datsuns, and Toyota saloons. I know, I've done it - twice.

Overland does not NEED a LandRover anymore - but you can do it the bumpy way if you wish, for fun. At any point you can come off the difficult route and take the easy one.

In case you are mis-understanding me - here's a good example:

There is an excellent motorway / or main highway most / nearly all of the way from Innsbruck in Austria to Ljublijana in Slovenia, via the Brenner Pass into Italy. However - try avoiding the motorways and the paying of tolls - what an adventure that can be, over the old mule tracks and ex-main roads. I've done both and prefer the 'over the mountain' option.

I've met folks at the Turkey / Iraq border - all loaded up with sand ladders and extra jerricans. Why? They thought they needed them, but a Reliant Robin could get there.

Outside of Western-Europe, wars in the Balkans, Africa and in the Middle East have made many journeys almost impossible unless you pull strings, or ask favours. You have to use ferries from strange places to even stranger places.

Did you see Michael Palin's tour of the 'New Europe'? - the bugger cheated - he hired a fishing boat in Croatia and without permission sailed to Dures in Albania. Bribes, bribes, bribes and that's a BBC film crew. Several numpties in 2008 thought they would try the same trip - no chance. Jail for them!

By all means go on an overland trip - it'll be great fun. Enjoy it by all means, just don't overlook the fact that a clued-up family man, with his Japanese estate or van, going to visit his wife's relatives, may have the same destination in Tamanrasset or Khartoum as you.

I've had a series III, currently have a discovery, and use military 110s regularly.

I agree with what's already been said. Series are relatively cheap, but they're old now, and slow, and pretty uncomfortable. 110s are ideal off road, but lack in other areas like comfort and features. With Range Rovers the emphasis is on comfort, which means they are less reliable, and Discos are somewhere between RR and Defenders.

Each have their foibles, but I'd say that if load capacity, off road ability, and basic ruggedness are you main criteria, then the obvious choice would be a 90/110.

However, if you have a budget, you expect to be doing a fair amount of the journey on hard surfaces, and you want a bit more comfort then go for a Disco. I wouldn't really consider a rangie, as they weren't really designed with exploration in mind. I believe that Discovery's were used as the camel trophy vehicles through all of the 90s. (apart from one year where they used freelanders:doh.

I will add... I've heard some people say that defenders and discos have equal off road ability. I have to say that I certainly havn't found that in my experience. Our 110s are fitted with Wolf wheels, and Michelin XCL/ XZL and go places I wouldn't dream of taking my disco with A/T tyres.

ReadySalted said:

I wouldn't really consider a rangie, as they weren't really designed with exploration in mind. I believe that Discovery's were used as the camel trophy vehicles through all of the 90s. (apart from one year where they used freelanders:doh.

I will add... I've heard some people say that defenders and discos have equal off road ability. I have to say that I certainly havn't found that in my experience. Our 110s are fitted with Wolf wheels, and Michelin XCL/ XZL and go places I wouldn't dream of taking my disco with A/T tyres.

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I think a Range Rover Classic would be every bit as good as a Disco 1/2 on expedition, the only real difference being storage as the Disco's have much higher roofs. Given the Disco was built on the RR Classic chassis, there can't be that much difference - and the Classics were used twice as Camel Trophy vehicles, I believe!

Anyway, I've got an RRC now as I do value comfort if you're spending a lot of time in a vehicle, and I will not be going extreme offroad - more dusty tracks, bit of desert, etc.

Yeh to be fair you're probably not far wrong. I dare say a RRC would be more suited/ rugged than a later disco 2. My old man had a Rangie Classic for years and was superb.

There's a definite appeal of RRC. What is good about them, is they're a vehicle, made for the upper classes with all that style, but capable of expedition travel too.

There's a good bit about the Rangie from 1 minute 10 seconds in.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnsMqYFjJpw&feature=player_embedded]OXFORD LAND ROVER - YouTube[/ame]

The problem with booking into a LR experience day in a Defender is that you'll end up in a £28k piece of kit. Excellent day and an excellent vehicle but you're only looking at spending a 10th of that so don't get your hopes up that high.

I agree with the comments above in that you probably won't actually need a complex or highly capable vehicle when you get there (unless you're planning a route that needs it); you'll find the locals doing the same route in all sorts of jaloppys.

A few yrs ago I did a Morocco and Sahara route in an old series 2 landy. We went though a spring leaf, tyres, rad and the chassis was pretty shagged by the time we got back. That said, it was a simple beast and the locals could fix it and get spares from old wreckers.

So, for my tuppence worth I would be keep it simple, make sure it's structurally and mechanically sound, and has no faults before you set off. Will hopefully be okay, and enjoy the ride (however uncomfortable!)

G