Insurance issues Springs or Air

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Maybe yes after market parts may need approval and they should imo, there are changes to the MOT in UK as we know, but not to the extent suggested, we have Philip Hammond to thank, he talked Brussels out of the sweeping changes that would have clobbered the after market industry, the key being modified, so at present in the UK, you can lower or raise a car, fit different suspension and brakes etc, and take air off a P38 provided the work is done properly, but I don't think you can remove a cat if it was fitted from new, could be wrong on that but it's my interpretation of the new rules.
 
wammers said:
Early Range Rovers (Classics) had an affinity with rolling over going around corners at speed and if swerved at speed. So much so that all police force traffic Range rovers at the time were banned from high speed pursuit. When air suspension was introduced this was corrected by allowing the car to squat down above 50 MPH greatly reducing the tendency to roll. Fitting coils removes this safety feature. The construction and use, type approval certificate for the P38 does not cover coil springs, therefore any P38 on coil springs is technically illegal to use on British roads. But having said that there are possibly thousands of modified cars on the roads that are technically in the same boat, but nobody seems to care. If the European regulations currently being considered come fully into force in this country havoc will ensue. Worse case scenario is that ANY vehicle fitted with a non standard or non factory approved part or that has a modification NOT listed on it's original manufactured spec it will not pass the MOT. This already happens in some European countries.
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I nearly rolled my classic a couple of times by taking sharp corners too fast, I can hustle my P38 along at a respectable pace on the twisties - locked in highway height.
 
You get a lot of nonsense from insurance companies, many of whom don't actually know what they are talking about, so just reject things as the easier option.

I have recently had to get quotes for my LPG Classic. Some said we don't touch that. Others said you have to be on that stupid database. Others said no prob, don't even want to see the paperwork.

Now I got ALL these answers from companies offering cover from the same underwriter!
 
Im all for the fact that something should be done regarding modifications, ive seen some horrific diy jobs! but outright baning them is just ridiculous!
Maybe make it so the mod must be inspected and signed off by a mot tester (or other similar qualified person! dvsa?) To confirm it meets certain standerds before being allowed on the road
Cos lets face it some manufacturers are shocking and ive seen mods that actually improve the car
 
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If you roll your car at over 50 MPH anywhere and your insurance company find out it is on coils you maybe facing a non payout. EAS is designed to reduce that risk at speeds over 50 MPH by lowering the centre of gravity. Simple as that. Please yourselves but be aware.
 
gfromleeds said:
Im all for the fact that something should be done regarding modifications, ive seen some horrific diy jobs! but outright baning them is just ridiculous!
Maybe make it so the mod must be inspected and signed off by a mot tester (or other similar qualified person! dvsa?) To confirm it meets certain standerds before being allowed on the road
Cos lets face it some manufacturers are shocking and ive seen mods that actually improve the car
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I doubt that an MOT tester would be able or qualified to comment on the safety aspects of such modifications. That's what type approval is for (and I'm pretty sure that involves a lot more than a quick looksee!)
 
kooky_guy said:
I doubt that an MOT tester would be able or qualified to comment on the safety aspects of such modifications. That's what type approval is for (and I'm pretty sure that involves a lot more than a quick looksee!)
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The construction and use regulations type approval certificate for the P38 does NOT cover coil springs, it was issued to a vehicle fitted with EAS. So technically any P38 on coils is NOT type approved to be on public roads. Not that anyone takes any notice of this fact.
 
wammers said:
The construction and use regulations type approval certificate for the P38 does NOT cover coil springs, it was issued to a vehicle fitted with EAS. So technically any P38 on coils is NOT type approved to be on public roads. Not that anyone takes any notice of this fact.
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And they probably never will until there is a serious accident caused by someone putting their P38 on coils and it falling over at speed or otherwise misbehaving as a result.
 
kooky_guy said:
And they probably never will until there is a serious accident caused by someone putting their P38 on coils and it falling over at speed or otherwise misbehaving as a result.
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It will soon change if some dick mows down a load of kids at a bus stop. I don't think i did not realise it was a problem will get them to far in court. Just like the dickhead boy racers who lower their cars and stiffen the suspension. Great around corners on a flat road. But wait til they hit a bump at speed going around one. Bloody idiots.
 
But you must have declared the mod to your insurance company otherwise they may invalidate your insurance resulting in it no longer being legal!

(of course they have to find out it's been converted, but that's the sort of thing that they do find out about after an accident)
 
When I bought it was on springs, I was looking around for insurance and got a couple of refusals because it was modified, these were very low premium policies, I contacted Adrian Flux explained the mod and it was not an issue.
 
I think people are missing the point a bit with these mods.

Insurance companies don't really care unless they have to pay out and just because you're insured doesn't make it safe.

Pretty sure that poor guy who rolled his Landy down an embankment a while ago with children inside thought his mods were safe and legal. It's only after that serious accident that his vehicle was actually thoroughly looked at and deemed to have been unsafely modified. Pretty sure all those mods were declared too.
 
a decent set of coils on a p38 doesnt make a dangerous vehicle and neither were classics prone for rolling though early soft spring non roll bar did lean some ,motorway height is just under inflated bags
 
jamesmartin said:
a decent set of coils on a p38 doesnt make a dangerous vehicle and neither were classics prone for rolling though early soft spring non roll bar did lean some ,motorway height is just under inflated bags
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Not having that James. Dangerous car maybe not, but less safe car certainly. Early classics were atrocious at speed, Land rover added an additional anti roll bar to the rear of later versions to try and overcome the problem. The police banned them from high speed pursuit because of several rolling incidents. When EAS was introduced, a safety feature of lowering the centre of gravity over 50 MPH was introduced. Fit coils to a P38 and you remove that safety feature simple as that. There isn't a failed EAS system on the planet that can't be repaired for far less than the cost of a coil conversion in most instances. If the system is looked after it is pretty reliable.
 
We used to have a modded disco 1 which which you did not take around roundabouts at speed, whereas my P38 never once felt unstable (boat like yes but not unstable :p ).
I've always thought that converting a P38 to coils effectively changes it to a Disco, but aren't they perfectly capable on them provided they're not extended springs? Are we saying that all high riding 4x4s on springs are unsafe, or is there something specific about a P38's design that makes it extra bad without the original EAS?
Is converting the L322 a thing? Because that might be cheaper than replacing the ludicrously overpriced air components! But on the P38 why wouldn't you want a cheap fairly reliable system that can allow your elderly dog into the car, and then take her along the motorway and to the off road site? :p
 
Why would you want a P38 on springs. I am new to range rovers that or a mitsubishi shogun the RR won even with all the things I have read about p38 I decided to get one (96 plate) with air, quite a few for sale saying "done away with the problem air and now on springs". So if I do get problems I will just replace what needs doing. After all it is nearly 20 years old and just went through the mot with no problems. Als.o the RR was cheaper on parts than a Mitsubishi
 
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