Ignorant wannabe environmentalists

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Steve Taylor wrote:
> Nigel Hewitt wrote:
>> Roughing it out on the back of an envelope
>> I'd say not quite...

>
> How do you do it ? Do you assume the fuel consumption/mile and a
> stoichiometric burn ?


<confession>
I was totally wrong. I lost a couple of zeros in the conversions.
</confession>

Done again properly

Riding a bike.
Let's say the same as a diver finning reasonably hard
as I know these numbers for a diving rebreather so
using the consumption figures of 1L of oxygen per minute
(what the RN test rebreathers to be able to do).

The CO2 scrubber expects to get about 66% of that back
(most of the rest is water) so for Carbon-12 and Oxygen-16

1L O2 = 1.27gms
66% of that is 0.84gms
so that makes 1.15 gm/minute of CO2
10mph so 6 minutes is roughly 7gms

Car
Lets say 20mpg for a Rangie
Pretend it is Octane not a brew of hydrocarbons
1 gallon (UK) is 4.5L so at 0.7Kg/L is 3.15Kg

so a twentieth of that (1 mile) is 157gms

of that C8H18 96/114 is carbon so 132gms of carbon
so *44/12 to get CO2 = 484gms of CO2

Even on a 40mpg car you're talking 240gms
We lost.

I clearly need better envelopes to work on.
I blame the drugs (tooth extracted this morning
which is why I'm at home).

sorry an all.
nigelH


 
On or around 17 Aug 2004 08:53:15 -0700, [email protected] (Richard
Brookman) enlightened us thusly:

>Alex <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> >
>> >

>> Didn't somebody once prove that cyclist emits more CO2/mile than a
>> petrol engine?
>>
>> Alex

>
>Only in the 24 hrs after a good curry.


mind, methane is a much more damaging greenhouse gas than CO2... Ideally,
you'd capture the methane and collect it for use in something like a fuel
cell.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 

"Fergus Kendall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Having just filled up my 200tdi 90 at the Tescos filling station I
> started the engine back up to drive off with the usual small puff of
> engine startup smoke. Just before I pulled away some woman in her late
> 50s/60s started shouting at me "the smoke that thing puts out is
> bloody disgusting", I said "it's a direct injection diesel, it's just
> a characteristic of the engine, they all do it", she then started
> screaming abut how irresponsible it was to drive "a car like that,
> it's criminal" I said "look it's only a small puff at startup is it
> smoking now?" Then she went off on another rant so I told her "to go
> f**k herself and drove off" (wouldn't usually use such language to a
> member of the public but she seriously ****ed me off). The fact that
> her brand new nissan micra produced more pollution being manufactured
> than running a 200tdi 90 for 10 years didn't seem to concern her, was
> tempthed to reverse over her and her stupid toy car.
> Is there a Land Rover certified taser weapon I can purchase to teach
> these people a lesson or would it be hazzardous to use such a device
> on a filling station forecourt?
>
> Fergus


All this bull**** about 4wd vehicles does my bloody head in. I can use mine as a van, a car, an off road
vehicle, It can carry 7 adults for the school run, it can carry not a million miles away from an average
tranny. It uses less fuel than a tranny or even a mini cooper s ( I have owned both) it takes up no-more
footprint space than my wife's Audi A4 Convertible that does 22mpg & has 4 seats & you couldn't carry a
baby in it!! If anything, my 4wd 'contributes' rather than detracts, how would you get all your employees
to work in the snow if you owned a friggin' fiesta?

These chavs should get their **** correct about the actual 'usage' of the 4wd vehicles. Mine is regularly
full to bursting of all manner of things.

If any old bags give me **** about my exhaust smoking, they are the ones that will be smoking - in a
shallow grave.

All the **** brought about by the ****ers in power (basically, you can see the new tax coming) makes me
puke

Nige


 
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 22:29:12 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:28:49 GMT, Alex <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Don't worry about it, I think Martyn has a bee in his bonnet about gay
>>guys.....

>
>Missed that comment. I hope I don't appear to be that way inclined.
>FWIW, I don't care about anyones sexual orientation so long as they're
>happy and don't hurt anyone (without consent, obviously) :)


Took you a while to spot that one :D You're usually quicker to rise to
a windup......

Alex
 
Mother" <"@ {mother} @ wrote:
>
> Missed that comment. I hope I don't appear to be that way inclined.
> FWIW, I don't care about anyones sexual orientation so long as they're
> happy and don't hurt anyone (without consent, obviously) :)


FWIW, I don't care about anyone's sexual orientation as long as they don't
go on and on about it and tell me that I am repressed an "in denial" if I
don't share it. I was going to say "as long as they don't shove it down my
throat", but that would not give the correct impression.

--

Rich

Series 2a
RR 4.6
V8 trialler
dog, wife, kids, whatever


 
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:48:50 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:30:51 +0100, Tim Hobbs
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>'95 Discovery V8i aka "The Disco" (FOR SALE)

>
>Ahem...


<nips outside>

Yep, still here....

:)

Is this better?


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'95 Discovery V8i aka "The Disco" (SOLD)
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
 
"Tim Hobbs" <[email protected]> wrote

> They could use that power to run their company
> cars and vans - it would work fairly well as drivers could recharge
> their cars at work during the day and the vans could recharge at
> night.


But the tax man would want his cut!

Reg.

 
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:30:51 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>>You're usually quicker to rise to a windup......
>>
>>Alex

>
>Blimey. I know he's getting on a bit, but I didn't realise he'd had
>to have a starting handle fitted....


Hehe. Fitted *where* exactly?

Alex
 
In article <[email protected]>, Richard Brookman wrote:
>
> Electric vehicles are not pollution-free, as some would claim. The
> creation of the electricity to charge the batteries creates pollution
> in a power station somewhere. But to be fair, all that pollution is
> concentrated in one place, and it is much easier to control the nasty
> emissions at source than it is from a million exhaust pipes. Plus
> whatever is discharged goes up into the atmosphere, rather than being
> emitted at face level in a city street.
>


Batteries don't last for ever either, what happens to all the nasty stuff
inside the battery when it's life is over? How much energy gets used
making the sort of batteries that are used for motive power?

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

I looked out my window, and saw Kyle Pettys' car upside down,
then I thought 'One of us is in real trouble'.
-- Davey Allison, on a 150 m.p.h. crash
 
"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Figure this one out then, if we all drove battery powered electric vehicles
> the electrictiy to charge them would still have to be generated somewhere,
> most likely inefficiently.
>
> At least the pollution we cause is honest and visible.
>


Electric vehicles are not pollution-free, as some would claim. The
creation of the electricity to charge the batteries creates pollution
in a power station somewhere. But to be fair, all that pollution is
concentrated in one place, and it is much easier to control the nasty
emissions at source than it is from a million exhaust pipes. Plus
whatever is discharged goes up into the atmosphere, rather than being
emitted at face level in a city street.

I'm not a fan of electric cars - I'd rather use a bike or (gulp) walk,
but the envirotwats have a point when they say that battery-powered
vehicles are better for the environment. Note the word "better" -
it's all comparative. No transport is pollution-free. We all emit
CO2 when we walk.*

There's a similar argument with hydrogen cells. "Look", say the
e-****s, "it runs on water!" What they don't say is that it requires
massive energy to separate the hydrogen from the water in the first
place, and all that energy creates pollution for someone.

Rich

* Curry jokes to the usual address.
 
On or around 19 Aug 2004 04:07:51 -0700, [email protected] (Richard
Brookman) enlightened us thusly:

>There's a similar argument with hydrogen cells. "Look", say the
>e-****s, "it runs on water!" What they don't say is that it requires
>massive energy to separate the hydrogen from the water in the first
>place, and all that energy creates pollution for someone.


this is a point I'm fond of making. I found some figures a bit back for
transport energy usage in the USA, which suggest that to operate the
transport fleet on watre-derived hydrogen would require the electrical
output of something like 3000 sq. mi. of solar panels, windmills covering
the land area of 2 medium-sized states or one nuclear power station.

and that leaves out the amount of water you (temporarily) extract form the
environment, in a country (the US) which is already getting marginal on
water supply in some areas.

and you can't (directly) use sea-water, either, you'd have to desalinate it
first, using even more energy in the process.

the trouble with all the envirogeeks and the hydrogen fuel-cell bandwagon
(which the government are jumping onto as well, with doubtless equal lack of
forethought) is that many of them fail to appreciate the size of the problem
- road transport in this country uses millions of gallons of fuel PER DAY,
and unless you can contrive an enormous state-change in the way we operate,
you need to supply that sort of amount of alternative fuel.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> this is a point I'm fond of making. I found some figures a bit back for
> transport energy usage in the USA, which suggest that to operate the
> transport fleet on watre-derived hydrogen would require the electrical
> output of something like 3000 sq. mi. of solar panels, windmills covering
> the land area of 2 medium-sized states or one nuclear power station.


I did note though the development of a new photo-catalytic cell which
decomposes water using sunlight directly.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3536156.stm

efficiency is currently only 8%.

I quote.
"This means, for example, that at the benchmark 10% performance level, a
7m x7m Tandem Cell™ unit on a double garage roof is capable of producing
enough hydrogen from sunlight to run a Mercedes A-Class vehicle 11,000
miles over a year in Los Angeles light conditions,"

This of course assumes an insolation of rather more than we get in the
North of England.....

Steve
 
Steve Taylor wrote:
> Tim Hobbs wrote:
>
>>
>> Large power stations operate at much higher efficiency than petrol
>> engines...

>
>
> Much ? No thermal power station can be more then roughly 30% efficient.
> What is the conversion efficiency of a car engine ?
> Steve

Typical diesel ~30-35%
petrol ~20-25%

rest is heat given up to everything other than useful driving power

Terry
 

"Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> Thats why a jet engine gets more efficient as it goes up.
>

Hmmmm... not quite that simple. Jets become more efficient due to the lower
mass of available oxygen at altitude requiring a lower mass of fuel to
maintain a constant "mixture ratio". The output thrust is (very) basically
the ratio between airflow velocity at compressor entry to airflow velocity
at jet pipe nozzle outlet. This is clouded by modern high bypass-ratio
turbines, but the basic theory is the same,- Take a mass of air, add a fuel
to it and burn the mixture to create a velocity increase.
That is why piston prop engines are more efficient at lower altitudes, at
higher altitudes there is 1. less airmass to accelerate rearwards (creating
thrust), necessitating the prop working harder, which it can't because 2.
there is a lower available oxygen mass entering the engine in which to burn
fuel.

Badger.


 
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