I think its a "ringer"

Hi unfortunately it looks like i may have a ringer, i was selling my old 66 beetle and a chap offered a defender in a swap deal. I've have always liked defenders but didn't know much about them. When he came to collect beetle i checked that the VIN matched V5, its got the chassis stamped and the plate in the engine bay so all looked good. He said he had got it off a mate who had spent a bit on upgrades, new transfer box, td5 engine etc etc. Not knowing anything i thought it was fair deal and i definitely get more use out of it. I paid for a full history check on it and everything matched up. Mot info stacks up although appears to be off the road from 2008 - 2014. The more i look in to it the more i think its not right, its on a 91 reg but everything appears to be TD5, but the chassis is stamped matching V5, i know it probably isnt that difficult to stamp a chassis. If it is a ringer it would appear that it happened sometime before 2014. The question is what do i do ????? i've tried to find engine number but its not where it should be. I traded my pride and joy bug for it and don't want to lose all the money i invested. I had planned to turned this defender in to a soft top and keep for a number of years. This has really upset me as i always make sure i am completely upfront with any vehicle i sell. I did ask the guy some questions but he just said thats how it was when he got it. Really don't want to just sell on knowing it could be dodgy as that doesn't sit right with me but also don't want to lose everything. i was about to start spending money on it to get it in top mechanical condition, but am reluctant to do that now. I thought i had done all the necessary checks, VIN, V5 paid for vehicle history. I didn't realise this was such a big problem with defenders until i researched it. Any advise much appreciated, Thanks

Hi. Hope we can help.
What does the V5 day for the engine number?

chassis number should be on the o/s front jacking point. Is it a standard or galvanised chassis

if on the mot shows in need of repairs on the chassis do the welding works show up.

Chassis number is there in the correct place and i think its a standard chassis not galvanised. Theres no reference to the chassis in the MOT's. Thanks

What year does the V5 say it was made? Does the VIN (chassis number) decode as a '91 model or a td5?. See here to decode yours:
https://www.firstfour.co.uk/land-rover-vin

It says it was manufactured and registered in 1991, decoding it says its a 91 model

Fingers crossed, some very clever people on here who will help one way or another - keep your chin up.

So hoping did they just replace the engine...

got a photo of the dash.
Check glass for year of manufacture

Its not impossible to legally 'upgrade' a Defender with newer parts so making the vehicle look 'dodgy'. Is the chassis number stamped in the correct place? as Hicap phill says it should be on the off side front dumb iron. Does it look like its been professionally stamped on? Is the chassis a Tdi or TD5 version? Post a photo of the rear cross member, its the easiest way to tell. There are other differences but I don't know them off the top of my head. Is the engine a TD5 or a Tdi?

doriz said:

Fingers crossed, some very clever people on here who will help one way or another - keep your chin up.

Click to expand...

Thanks, its just a bit gutting, thought i'd done all the normal checks. Just don't want to spend a load of money on something which maybe i cant sell if the future, although i do plan to keep it a good few years.

Engines definitely TD5, i was told it was the original chassis but comparing it to the older style this looks like a TD5 chassis. The stamp is in the correct position and looks authentic.

Hicap phill said:

So hoping did they just replace the engine...

got a photo of the dash.
Check glass for year of manufacture

Click to expand...

Dash is TD5 as well, all this things i didn't realise until i started to look at parts and upgrades. Didn't know there was i difference between TD5 and earlier Defender, i do now.

AL1975 said:

Engines definitely TD5, i was told it was the original chassis but comparing it to the older style this looks like a TD5 chassis. The stamp is in the correct position and looks authentic.

Click to expand...

put some pics up we will have a better idea then

The things to check now are the details ie the differences between a Tdi and a TD5. The less Tdi items/features you find the more likely you have a ringer (or very comprehensive upgrade).
If you have a ringer you have 3 options:
1. Confess to the DVLA who will either, at best, give you a 'Q' plate after a full IVA check (like an MOT but a lot stricter) or worse, seize the vehicle, leaving you with nothing.
2. Say nothing and drive round in a very nice TD5 which will be MOT and tax exempt in 11 years time.
3. Break for parts.

My 86 has a new td5 chassis, a 93 200tdi engine, a later disc brakes rear Salisbury axle, new push button doors to replace the lift up handle type, all new in 2006. Bulkhead is 300tdi but don't know the year.
100% legitimate -the whole thing.
The only thing about yours that's of concern to me is that it's a lot of work (I believe) to fit a td5 to an older model but easy to nick one and change the identity using a rusted out earlier model.
Post picks of the rear crossmember and dash.

AL1975 said:

Engines definitely TD5, i was told it was the original chassis but comparing it to the older style this looks like a TD5 chassis. The stamp is in the correct position and looks authentic.

Click to expand...

TD5 engine number can be a right PITA to see. They hid it well on the engine itself.

Cheers

The only thing that looks like a date on the glass is the windscreen and it says 1993

Could i ask what would everyone else do in this situation ? The guy has also left me with a suspected head gasket issue as well so got to spend on it

Both of your photos suggest to me Td5.