How to start an engine in winter

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trucker5774 said:
Damp saturates the snap on sponge turrets and causes the petrol to emulsify leading to oil in the horn:rolleyes:
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One lives and learns ...


and I meant to say , a really REALLY good way to start a diesel on a cold day without straining the battery or using AeroStart is to TOW IT for a mile or so till it is running. Never fails. I don't know why more of us don't do this.
 
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dave18 said:
so know how a fuel rail and a helical works.

cool.gif
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Hi dave18
Fascinating stuff!
Please explain what 'a fuel rail' and 'a helical' are , and then tell us how they work.

I am dying to find out, especially the helical thing - that's new to me.
But then, I have only been doing diesels for 50 years, so what do I know?
 
CharlesY said:
Same in Sweden.

I have Thwaites Nimbus dumper. 510 cc single cylinder direct injection diesel.
NO electrics of any kind - but it has a self-starter, ME and the starting handle!

On a cold morning, the way to get it running is to use a big kettle-full of boiling water over the engine, paying attention to the aluminium cooling fins on the injector - plenty hot water there. The hot water trickles down among the fins on the cylinder barrel, and heats it up a treat. It fires up really well after that.

The real trick to starting diesels from cold is HEAT. You must get the compessed air in the cylinders hot enough to cause ignition.

Our Glow plugs do several things, heating the air in the pot, radiating heat to the walls of the combustion chamber, but mostly by being hot enough to start the fuel burning. People with 2.5NA engines and 2.5TD will know all about trying to start those on cold days if the glow plugs are out of action.

My tractor uses a flame plug, and that is amazing!
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Even with the glow plugs working, my 19j was a pig to start from cold. Used to have to give it at least 30 seconds of heat before anything would happen. Most of the time it took two cycles of 30 seconds to get it firing.

A flame plug, is that as exciting as it sounds? :eek::D
 
Langers said:
Even with the glow plugs working, my 19j was a pig to start from cold. Used to have to give it at least 30 seconds of heat before anything would happen. Most of the time it took two cycles of 30 seconds to get it firing.

A flame plug, is that as exciting as it sounds? :eek::D
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tis on an old perkins engine and yer forget to connect yer filter pipe back up after just replacing the burner and yer bonnet lagging starts ta smoke before yer start cranking:doh::rolleyes::D
 
Best and only advice I needed for -18c starts in December was turn the key and wait till the glow pug light goes off (5 seconds) .... dont touch nothing and then turn the key... perfect every time.

Oh.... and when my deisel started to freeze I put some unleaded in as per advice from this forum...pretty simple stuff really.
 
so whats wrong with easy start?

ive been using it where necessary for forty years and not noticed any ill effects.
one used tractor i bought in the eighties wont cold start without it whatever the weather.. once its done one start and warmed up its fine for the rest of the day... it still just needs the smallest whiff for that first start but hasnt got any worse in the nearly 30 years ive owned it. .

weve got a fourtrak that has an intermitant fault in the glow plugs that i havnt tracked down yet... just carrying the yellow can means i can still use it ....without the worry of being stranded somewhere if the heater plugs wont work
 
ricc said:
so whats wrong with easy start?

ive been using it where necessary for forty years and not noticed any ill effects.
one used tractor i bought in the eighties wont cold start without it whatever the weather.. once its done one start and warmed up its fine for the rest of the day... it still just needs the smallest whiff for that first start but hasnt got any worse in the nearly 30 years ive owned it. .

weve got a fourtrak that has an intermitant fault in the glow plugs that i havnt tracked down yet... just carrying the yellow can means i can still use it ....without the worry of being stranded somewhere if the heater plugs wont work
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Easy Start and all similar substances are based on di-ethyl ether (C2H5)2O
quote
Diethyl ether has a high cetane number of 85-96 and is used as a starting fluid for diesel and gasoline engines because of its high volatility and low autoignition temperature which is is only 170 °C (338 °F), so it can be ignited by a hot surface without a flame or spark.
unquote

The snag is that ether in air is likely to ignite at about FIVE to one compression, meaning that in a diesel the piston is barely half way up a compression stroke when the ether explodes and tries to blast the piston back down. This puts extreme stresses on the "land" that supports the top compression piston ring, and may break that land off. At that stage the piston is destroyed.

Using that stuff should be done as little as possible, and as seldom as possible - in my opinion.

The terrible "cracking" noise it makes is the detonation damaging your pistons.
 
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Langers said:
Even with the glow plugs working, my 19j was a pig to start from cold. Used to have to give it at least 30 seconds of heat before anything would happen. Most of the time it took two cycles of 30 seconds to get it firing.

A flame plug, is that as exciting as it sounds? :eek::D
Click to expand...


Sure is!


Some of them are really great. The idea is to have a bloody big coil of ni-chrome wire in the inlet manifold. When connected to the electrics, this goes red hot.

In the KiGass system, you heat the wire red hot then slam in a little pump that spraysa good spoonful of diesel or kero onto the red hot wire.

Usually you can hear it light up with a good WHUMP! noise, and this is when you hit the starter motor. The cold engine sucks in smoke and flames and half-burned fuel, and ... well, the engine really can't do much else but fire up.

The flame plug in my tractor is connected to a fuel line and electrics on the key - the HEAT position. Like Glow position in Landies.

This heats up a coil like before, but smaller, and as it heats up, the coil heats a bi-metal strip which bends, and that lifts a needle-valve that lets diesel sprinkle onto the red hot wire as soon as you hit the starter motor. My tractor fires up fast no matter how cold it is.

No reason why a flame plug can't be fitted to old 2.5NA engines.
Their starting difficulties would simply go away.

Ordinary people should not fit or use flame plugs.
Just farmers and nutters like us.
 
CharlesY said:
Sure is!


Some of them are really great. The idea is to have a bloody big coil of ni-chrome wire in the inlet manifold. When connected to the electrics, this goes red hot.

In the KiGass system, you heat the wire red hot then slam in a little pump that spraysa good spoonful of diesel or kero onto the red hot wire.

Usually you can hear it light up with a good WHUMP! noise, and this is when you hit the starter motor. The cold engine sucks in smoke and flames and half-burned fuel, and ... well, the engine really can't do much else but fire up.

The flame plug in my tractor is connected to a fuel line and electrics on the key - the HEAT position. Like Glow position in Landies.

This heats up a coil like before, but smaller, and as it heats up, the coil heats a bi-metal strip which bends, and that lifts a needle-valve that lets diesel sprinkle onto the red hot wire as soon as you hit the starter motor. My tractor fires up fast no matter how cold it is.

No reason why a flame plug can't be fitted to old 2.5NA engines.
Their starting difficulties would simply go away.

Ordinary people should not fit or use flame plugs.
Just farmers and nutters like us.
Click to expand...

How much does something like that cost?
 
CharlesY said:
Sure is!


Some of them are really great. The idea is to have a bloody big coil of ni-chrome wire in the inlet manifold. When connected to the electrics, this goes red hot.

In the KiGass system, you heat the wire red hot then slam in a little pump that spraysa good spoonful of diesel or kero onto the red hot wire.

Usually you can hear it light up with a good WHUMP! noise, and this is when you hit the starter motor. The cold engine sucks in smoke and flames and half-burned fuel, and ... well, the engine really can't do much else but fire up.

The flame plug in my tractor is connected to a fuel line and electrics on the key - the HEAT position. Like Glow position in Landies.

This heats up a coil like before, but smaller, and as it heats up, the coil heats a bi-metal strip which bends, and that lifts a needle-valve that lets diesel sprinkle onto the red hot wire as soon as you hit the starter motor. My tractor fires up fast no matter how cold it is.

No reason why a flame plug can't be fitted to old 2.5NA engines.
Their starting difficulties would simply go away.

Ordinary people should not fit or use flame plugs.
Just farmers and nutters like us.
Click to expand...

That sounds epic! The 'whump' noise you describe reminds me of when we fire up our old fashioned gas boiler, when the pilot light ignites the main jets.

At any rate it sounds much better than a glowplug system, would make start-ups much more exhilirating :D:p
 
philvy said:
Thanks.
How would you reckon is best to install it on a 200Di? I doubt a plastic intake will like it? How would the fuel connection be the safest/easiest?

Cheers
Click to expand...

The plastic manifold would be no good, it would melt!

The device needs to be fitted UP stream from the inlet ports so the engine sucks air past it, and draws all the flames and smoke into the cylinders.

I would need to check where the fuel supply is tapped from, but it will be somewhere after the lift pump. It won't be a problem.
 
CharlesY said:
The plastic manifold would be no good, it would melt!

The device needs to be fitted UP stream from the inlet ports so the engine sucks air past it, and draws all the flames and smoke into the cylinders.

I would need to check where the fuel supply is tapped from, but it will be somewhere after the lift pump. It won't be a problem.
Click to expand...

Would a thin alu intake suffice? Like the ones used fot the heater ducts.
 
When i lived in the Alps in the winter, to start my TD5 sometimes in less than -25, I crawled in the back door, all other doors frozen solid. Leaned across, put the key in the ignition, waited for the glow plugs to go off and turned the key. Always started. Then the fun of scrapping off the inside off then the outside.
 
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