How reliable are the Disco Auto boxes?

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On or around Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:54:24 +0100, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:57:46 +0100, Matthew Maddock
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, will bear that in mind. All sounding good so far - just hope I can
>> persuade SWMBO that she *can* drive something that big!
>
>Girlie reactions can be odd.
>
>Sounds as though our reasons for getting a Discovery were much the same as
>yours. SWMBO is ok driving but is beginning to feel a little self
>concious in such a large vehicle. I may have to line the glass with that
>stuff that drug dealers and minor celebs use. OTOH perhaps it's just a
>case of getting used to it.
>
>Looking at it on the drive I'd say the Discovery is about 18" (maybe 2')
>shorter than the 110. I think only a life threatening event would prsuade
>SWMBO to drive the 110.

have you parked 'em side-by-side?

very little difference in overall size... The 110 is of course 10" longer
wheelbase, but the rear overhang on the disco is about the same and the
front overhang is a bit more. I doubt there's more than a foot in it,
LOA-wise.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"'Tis a mad world, my masters" John Taylor (1580-1633) Western Voyage, 1
 
On or around Mon, 17 Jul 2006 06:33:34 +0100, rookthorn <> enlightened us
thusly:

>
>
>Good tip about changing the oil - just how do you get it all out?

remove the gearbox, take the torque converter off and tip it about at funny
angles.


short answer is "you can't". so what you do is to drain all that will drain
and put a new filter unit inside the sump.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"'Tis a mad world, my masters" John Taylor (1580-1633) Western Voyage, 1
 
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:29:28 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:54:24 +0100, "William Tasso"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:57:46 +0100, Matthew Maddock
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> OK, will bear that in mind. All sounding good so far - just hope I can
>>> persuade SWMBO that she *can* drive something that big!
>>
>> Girlie reactions can be odd.
>>
>> Sounds as though our reasons for getting a Discovery were much the same
>> as
>> yours. SWMBO is ok driving but is beginning to feel a little self
>> concious in such a large vehicle. I may have to line the glass with
>> that
>> stuff that drug dealers and minor celebs use. OTOH perhaps it's just a
>> case of getting used to it.
>>
>> Looking at it on the drive I'd say the Discovery is about 18" (maybe 2')
>> shorter than the 110. I think only a life threatening event would
>> prsuade
>> SWMBO to drive the 110.
>
> have you parked 'em side-by-side?

oh yes - it's not a big drive and for a bit we needed to make room for
three vehicles. The two Land Rovers were almost touching.

> very little difference in overall size... The 110 is of course 10"
> longer
> wheelbase,

sure - oddly, that snippet only registered with me in the last few days.

> but the rear overhang on the disco is about the same and the
> front overhang is a bit more. I doubt there's more than a foot in it,
> LOA-wise.

hrmm - you could well be right - I was going from memory. As they were
parked, the Discovery gave a little at the front and the back to the 110 -
I didn't use a tape measure :)

... and that is the point I was making. SWMBO cannot find what it takes
to drive the 110, but is reasonably comfortable with the Discovery despite
their very similar dimensions.

It's about perception - but of what I've yet to discover :)

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8
 
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:31:20 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Mon, 17 Jul 2006 06:33:34 +0100, rookthorn <> enlightened us
>thusly:
>
>>
>>
>>Good tip about changing the oil - just how do you get it all out?
>
>remove the gearbox, take the torque converter off and tip it about at funny
>angles.
>
>
>short answer is "you can't". so what you do is to drain all that will drain
>and put a new filter unit inside the sump.

Thanks for that, thought I'd done it wrong. :eek:))
 
On or around Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:48:59 +0100, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

> ... and that is the point I was making. SWMBO cannot find what it takes
>to drive the 110, but is reasonably comfortable with the Discovery despite
>their very similar dimensions.
>
>It's about perception - but of what I've yet to discover :)

the 110 feels bigger, especially if you're not very big yourself, I suspect.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
George Orwell (1903 - 1950) Animal Farm
 
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:29:28 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>On or around Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:54:24 +0100, "William Tasso"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:57:46 +0100, Matthew Maddock
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> OK, will bear that in mind. All sounding good so far - just hope I can
>>> persuade SWMBO that she *can* drive something that big!
>>
>>Girlie reactions can be odd.
>>
>>Sounds as though our reasons for getting a Discovery were much the same as
>>yours. SWMBO is ok driving but is beginning to feel a little self
>>concious in such a large vehicle. I may have to line the glass with that
>>stuff that drug dealers and minor celebs use. OTOH perhaps it's just a
>>case of getting used to it.
>>
>>Looking at it on the drive I'd say the Discovery is about 18" (maybe 2')
>>shorter than the 110. I think only a life threatening event would prsuade
>>SWMBO to drive the 110.
>
>have you parked 'em side-by-side?
>
>very little difference in overall size... The 110 is of course 10" longer
>wheelbase, but the rear overhang on the disco is about the same and the
>front overhang is a bit more. I doubt there's more than a foot in it,
>LOA-wise.

Happens with a lot of LR vehicles, some one asked me how I got used to
driving the 101 cos the "disco is a lot shorter", so I parked them
side by side to prove a point..... Guess which one is the
shortest.......
--

Simon Isaacs

"Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote"
George Jean Nathan (1882-1955)

ROT13 me....
 
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:29:28 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

[Discovery 1 & 110]

>
> have you parked 'em side-by-side?

ok - just for you :) I did that today.

> very little difference in overall size... The 110 is of course 10"
> longer
> wheelbase, but the rear overhang on the disco is about the same and the
> front overhang is a bit more. I doubt there's more than a foot in it,
> LOA-wise.

Parked them parallel right up to a wall. You couldn't get a fag paper in
the gap on either.

Checked the rear and fell about laughing. Discovery is longer by the
length of its towbar. Astonishing.

Missus can no longer use that argument to avoid driving the 110 <g>
--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8
 
On or around Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:55:02 +0100, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:29:28 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>[Discovery 1 & 110]
>
>>
>> have you parked 'em side-by-side?
>
>ok - just for you :) I did that today.
>
>> very little difference in overall size... The 110 is of course 10"
>> longer
>> wheelbase, but the rear overhang on the disco is about the same and the
>> front overhang is a bit more. I doubt there's more than a foot in it,
>> LOA-wise.
>
>Parked them parallel right up to a wall. You couldn't get a fag paper in
>the gap on either.

yebbut, it's cheating to roll up 'til it touches and then ease forward half
an inch. :)

>Checked the rear and fell about laughing. Discovery is longer by the
>length of its towbar. Astonishing.
>
>Missus can no longer use that argument to avoid driving the 110 <g>

hehehehe

told you. I used to have a 110 and parked it beside the disco. however,
I'd agree that especially for those of superior shortness, the 110 *feels*
bigger. it's difficult for short people to see over the dash etc.
especially with a spare wheel on the bonnet ;-)
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)
 
William and Austin Hi,

According to LR themselves (LR Experience book, first edition)

1. 110 overall length 4.438 mm (4.599 mm with door mounted spare wheel)
2. Discovery S1 overall length 4.538 mm
3. RaRo Classic 4.478 mm

Hope this helps

Take care
Pantelis

"William Tasso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:29:28 +0100, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [Discovery 1 & 110]
>
> >
> > have you parked 'em side-by-side?
>
> ok - just for you :) I did that today.
>
> > very little difference in overall size... The 110 is of course 10"
> > longer
> > wheelbase, but the rear overhang on the disco is about the same and the
> > front overhang is a bit more. I doubt there's more than a foot in it,
> > LOA-wise.
>
> Parked them parallel right up to a wall. You couldn't get a fag paper in
> the gap on either.
>
> Checked the rear and fell about laughing. Discovery is longer by the
> length of its towbar. Astonishing.
>
> Missus can no longer use that argument to avoid driving the 110 <g>
> --
> William Tasso
>
> Land Rover - 110 V8
> Discovery - V8


 
Badger a bit thanks for the excellent write up on ZF diagnostics and repair.

A VERY useful piece of writing and already stored in my technical archives.

Thanks again
Pantelis

"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Matthew Maddock" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:D[email protected]...
> >
> > Is the disco auto box any good? I'm not bothered from a
> > drive-ability point of view, more if it is going to be
> > reliable. I don't recall hearing anything specifically
> > bad about them.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Matt
>
> Basically, it's a good reliable box. However, it has one main common
failing
> that is easy to check and easy to prevent, that of premature "A" clutch
> wear, and the odd other faults that are also easy to check for.
>
> There are piston-ring type total-seal rings that in theory seal oil
passages
> within the rotating input shaft and static stator shaft at the front of
the
> box. As these seals wear, they allow a bleed of oil from the outlet of the
> main pump to partially apply the main "A" clutch in the box. This clutch
is
> permanently applied in all forward gears but released in P, R and N. If it
> is applied in P, R or N, the clutch slips, causing wear. This situation
can
> be caused by excessively (continuously and regularly) revving the engine
in
> P or N, or sitting the engine at, say, 3000rpm in the case of setting up
LPG
> on a V8. The "cure" (preventive measure) is to put the transfer box in N
and
> main box in D, 3, 2 or 1 if you need to sit revving the engine for any
> length of time, as this ensures the "A" clutch is applied and not
slipping.
>
> The method of checking for the seal wear (carefully), is to drive the
> vehicle for at least 20minutes to ensure the oil has thinned out as it
> reaches operating temp; then put the box in N, rev to 2400 (ish) rpm and
see
> if it creeps forward with the brakes off. Please make sure you have LOTS
of
> clear space in front when you do this, to be safe! No need to hold the
revs
> up, just accelerate the engine slowly and if you get to 2400ish with no
> creeping, back to idle.
>
> Dip the oil, it ought to be clear, translucent red - if it's brown or
dirty
> this indicates clutch pack wear, walk away!
>
> If the shift from 1 to 2 (D selected) is overly fierce or delayed to quite
a
> highish rpm, this is an indication of governor sticking issues; quite
common
> really, a lot of people just don't realise that it isn't meant to be that
> fierce a shift!
>
> There is another issue whereby you select D and it doesn't drive, but you
> can select 1 and pull away then go manually through the box right up to D
> with no problems. This is a sprag (one-way) roller bearing clutch right in
> the centre of the box that has "failed". The rollers have "flipped over"
> internally and the box needs removing and stripping to fix. This can be
> caused by selecting a forward gear at too high an rpm, or over-zealous
> acceleration from a standing start with a powerful engine. (won't apply to
> TDi's then!!)
>
> Rpm rises with a "squealing" noise before the vehicle drives - normally
low
> oil level or a very dirty internal filter. Ask yourself why the filter is
> dirty though, where is the dirt or debris coming from, the clutch packs
> wearing??
>
> Don't let this put you off an autobox though, they are essentially very
> reliable bits of kit that will go for easily well over 130,000miles given
> the correct routine maintenance. I know of some with nearly 200,000 miles
> that have had no issues. The failures quoted here are the typical failure
> modes with the box, the overall failure rate is very low when used in the
> way the manufacturer designed it. We run a zf box from a range rover
classic
> in one of our racers, it is abused severely (banged into gear at rpm's
well
> above idle, held against the brakes with throttle applied etc etc) and it
> has survived 3 or 4 seasons of Hillrally and Comp Safari use since
fitting,
> although the oil is starting to show clutch wear debris now. It was lifted
> from a motor with 80-odd thou on the clock, and apart from a mod to the
> valve body to prevent the convertor clutch locking in 4th, it was thrown
> into the racer with no other work being done to it!
>
> Be warned though, in my opinion a tdi with an autobox is rather lethargic,
> especially when towing. :)
>
> Badger.
>
>


 

"Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Badger a bit thanks for the excellent write up on ZF diagnostics and
repair.
>
> A VERY useful piece of writing and already stored in my technical
archives.
>
> Thanks again
> Pantelis

No problems, hope it is of some use to you.
For what it's worth, any zf boxes I rebuild are fitted with the modified
heavy-duty sprag clutch, and wherever possible are updated to the later
modified clutch packs for the "D" and "F" clutches. I also replace the
spigot shafts and fit modified seals to the input shafts, which together
should eliminate any future wear, along with another mod to allow quicker
pressure relief from the "A" clutch in an attempt to eliminate drag and
wear.
Badger.


 
This is interesting reading. I thought some of the big mercs and Bms
were around 6m. Nakes you wonder why people keep crowing on about the
urban footprint of 4x4's.

Regards
Stephen
>William and Austin Hi,
>
>According to LR themselves (LR Experience book, first edition)
>
>1. 110 overall length 4.438 mm (4.599 mm with door mounted spare wheel)
>2. Discovery S1 overall length 4.538 mm
>3. RaRo Classic 4.478 mm
>
>Hope this helps
>
>Take care
 
fanie wrote:
> This is interesting reading. I thought some of the big mercs and Bms
> were around 6m. Nakes you wonder why people keep crowing on about the
> urban footprint of 4x4's.
>
> Regards
> Stephen
>
I once parked my 109 next to a "new" Granada - exactly the same length.

Stuart
 
On or around Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:18:51 +0100, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Badger a bit thanks for the excellent write up on ZF diagnostics and
>repair.
>>
>> A VERY useful piece of writing and already stored in my technical
>archives.
>>
>> Thanks again
>> Pantelis
>
>No problems, hope it is of some use to you.
>For what it's worth, any zf boxes I rebuild are fitted with the modified
>heavy-duty sprag clutch, and wherever possible are updated to the later
>modified clutch packs for the "D" and "F" clutches. I also replace the
>spigot shafts and fit modified seals to the input shafts, which together
>should eliminate any future wear, along with another mod to allow quicker
>pressure relief from the "A" clutch in an attempt to eliminate drag and

If I get a supply of dosh sufficent to buy back my old 110 as a basis for
the infamous hybrid project, and if there's enough of said dosh available,
both things admittedly unlikely, then I'll send the 'box to you for a revamp
before fitting it...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If I get a supply of dosh sufficent to buy back my old 110 as a basis for
> the infamous hybrid project, and if there's enough of said dosh available,
> both things admittedly unlikely, then I'll send the 'box to you for a
revamp
> before fitting it...

No probs Austin, just gimme a shout if and when. :)
Badger.


 
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