Series 3 How do I find, information on my 1980 Ex-military S3 88’ with no ERM plate.

Hi, to all the wonderful Land Rover oracles out there.

How do I find information on my MOD S3?

I have just found out via a BMM -Heritage Certificate (see pic) that my S3 88’ (see pic) , was acquired by the MOD on the 22/09/1980. Unfortunately, it does not have an ERM plate, it has the holes where it used to be. It also does not have a chassis number as it looks like it has had a complete new one or the front replaced. The engine is a replacement, but I do have a VIN & gearbox number.

The Merlin Archive spreadsheets do not give a lot of information.

Can anyone give some guidance?

That says its a 109, what does the v5 say?

Kev12 said:

That says its a 109, what does the v5 say?

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Agreed, something doesn't add up here.

Decoding your VIN here
https://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/vin_numbers.htm

confirms it as series 3 109 with a 4 cylinder petrol engine

The DVLA MOT website has it as a SWB (?)

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.95073311.22114310.1628975898-121460054.1610306857

Kev12 said:

That says its a 109, what does the v5 say?

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Hi, all there is on the V5 is the VIN number and two dates - 1980 year of manufacture and 1990 year of first registration.

Regards,
Paul

wireman said:

The DVLA MOT website has it as a SWB (?)

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.95073311.22114310.1628975898-121460054.1610306857

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Yes I know, The VIN plate number is the same as when it was first registered in 1990. So i'm confused on that one, other than I recently spoke to many LD owners at a show and some mentioned wrong details on VIN plates.

Regards,
Paul

Kev12 said:

That says its a 109, what does the v5 say?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the replay.

Is there any MOD information I can find, other than Merlin.

Regards,

Paul

wireman said:

The DVLA MOT website has it as a SWB (?)

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.95073311.22114310.1628975898-121460054.1610306857

Click to expand...

Thanks for the replay.

Is there any MOD information I can find, other than Merlin.

Regards,

Paul

Ninja Goat said:

Thanks for the replay.

Is there any MOD information I can find, other than Merlin.

Regards,

Paul

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yes you could try to Tony at the royal logistics Corps museum archive, he may be able to trace it from vin number *possible*

Ninja Goat said:

Thanks for the replay.

Is there any MOD information I can find, other than Merlin.

Regards,

Paul

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you can ask for a Freedom of Information request but I don't know if they can do that with just the VIN. I'll see if I can find a link for you later.
have you any photos of the inside? From the photo you've posted I can't see any military features on it at all. It might be a CL (civilian logistics) model. Had it a military tow jaw? Or 12 pin trailer socket?

FoI

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/ministry-of-defence/about/publication-scheme

[email protected]

wireman said:

you can ask for a Freedom of Information request but I don't know if they can do that with just the VIN. I'll see if I can find a link for you later.
have you any photos of the inside? From the photo you've posted I can't see any military features on it at all. It might be a CL (civilian logistics) model. Had it a military tow jaw? Or 12 pin trailer socket?

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No it had neither, tow jaw or 12 pin. The inside is standard, nothing that I know of, that shouted military.

Can you find any trace of chassis number on the front off side dumb iron? Does the chassis look like it has been shortened? Does it have a removable (bolted in rather than welded) gearbox cross member?

wireman said:

Can you find any trace of chassis number on the front off side dumb iron? Does the chassis look like it has been shortened? Does it have a removable (bolted in rather than welded) gearbox cross member?

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I have looked on the chassis for a number on the place where you mention and other areas, nothing, just flat as manifactured. The chassis is in very good condition

wireman said:

Can you find any trace of chassis number on the front off side dumb iron? Does the chassis look like it has been shortened? Does it have a removable (bolted in rather than welded) gearbox cross member?

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I’ve looked on the chassis for a number on the place where you mention and other areas, nothing, just flat steel as manufactured. No shortening welding which I can see. And the Gearbox mount is welded, but will be converted to a bolt on soon, when gearbox comes out. The chassis is in very good condition as inspected by Halfords (by a Land Rover enthusiast) for MOT; so, replaced?

Although when looking for the chassis number and flap wheeling the paint off, I noticed that there was a Buff coloured primer at the rear but not at the front. And am investigating further.

My gut feeling is you own a VIN/chassis plate from an ex MOD 109 and a stolen/written off SWB. Someone for whatever reason has married the two together. If you keep the vehicle and say nothing all will be well, unless it's involved in an accident then the insurance will try anything to not pay out. Selling the vehicle would be a morale dilemma. If you fess up to the DVLA then you risk losing the vehicle. News you probably didn't want to hear. Back to your original question, a FoI request will only tell you about the MOD 109 which you don't have.

wireman said:

My gut feeling is you own a VIN/chassis plate from an ex MOD 109 and a stolen/written off SWB. Someone for whatever reason has married the two together. If you keep the vehicle and say nothing all will be well, unless it's involved in an accident then the insurance will try anything to not pay out. Selling the vehicle would be a morale dilemma. If you fess up to the DVLA then you risk losing the vehicle. News you probably didn't want to hear. Back to your original question, a FoI request will only tell you about the MOD 109 which you don't have.

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Although its harsh news, the more I delve, the more I realise, what you are saying could be true. The previous owner had it since 1993. I wasn’t a Land Rover person, but I needed a pick-up/van and this popped up via somebody I did some work for. Looked ok V5 matched the VIN plate all ok. But then getting to know more, I find!!!

Just spent about £400 on the engine.

Not sure what to do now. Will think on it.

But thanks for all the information.

There was similar dilemma for a EMLRA member a few years ago. IIRC he tried to solve the problem by dealing with the DVLA but it ended up him having to scrap the vehicle then break it for spares. As you say the VIN matches the V5 so where's the problem? Who goes around decoding chassis numbers anyway! Best of luck with it whatever you decide.

wireman said:

There was similar dilemma for a EMLRA member a few years ago. IIRC he tried to solve the problem by dealing with the DVLA but it ended up him having to scrap the vehicle then break it for spares. As you say the VIN matches the V5 so where's the problem? Who goes around decoding chassis numbers anyway! Best of luck with it whatever you decide.

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Thanks,
The VIN number could have been wrong from day 1??

Your VIN matches an MOD Land Rover as per your Heritage Certificate. Even allowing for an error in one of the letters (109 instead of an 88) I would still expect to see a few MOD items on your vehicle. I wonder if it would be possible to get a copy of the MOD release papers (MOD F845 IIRC) from the DVLA, that might have some useful clues on it.