HELP - Chassis and bulkhead don't fit!

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"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote

> >
> > No, twice that 2 x 750.9 = 1501.8 mm. There will a tolerance of about
> > plus/minus 3 mm on that.
> >
> > Just don't do anything drastic if yours don't match. The manuals had so
> > many wrong and mixed up dimensions that I'd be looking for confirmation
> > from elsewhere.
> OK - the ROM says 1530mm for the rear x-member so 1501.8 sounds about
right.
> Thanks,
> Jon
>
>
1536mm (60.5 in.) in my book (Land Rover Series III Manual 607314 Issue 1,
page 76.10.02 Sheet 2) but it's not likely to be the same as the front
outriggers and theres no way you can guess how far in the holes are, I'll
measure it tomorrow.

Martin


 
"Oily" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> >
>> > No, twice that 2 x 750.9 = 1501.8 mm. There will a tolerance of about
>> > plus/minus 3 mm on that.
>> >
>> > Just don't do anything drastic if yours don't match. The manuals had so
>> > many wrong and mixed up dimensions that I'd be looking for confirmation
>> > from elsewhere.
>> OK - the ROM says 1530mm for the rear x-member so 1501.8 sounds about
> right.
>> Thanks,
>> Jon
>>
>>
> 1536mm (60.5 in.) in my book (Land Rover Series III Manual 607314 Issue
> 1,
> page 76.10.02 Sheet 2) but it's not likely to be the same as the front
> outriggers and theres no way you can guess how far in the holes are, I'll
> measure it tomorrow.
>
> Martin
>
Thanks Martin


 
Jon <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> I'm in Surrey! (It's still warm down here)

Having spent 2 weeks prior to rushing back to do Malvern (if only) in
Cornwall and Sussex I can catagorically say it's warmer here ;-) (North
Staffordshire)

Bit far for me...

Others comments make some sense, butchers though the lot of them ;-) When I
did my IIa I actually replaced the door pillars, footwells and gubbins while
I was putting it all back together so never had these problems as I built
mine to fit properly ;-)

Lee D



 

"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jon <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>> I'm in Surrey! (It's still warm down here)
>
> Having spent 2 weeks prior to rushing back to do Malvern (if only) in
> Cornwall and Sussex I can catagorically say it's warmer here ;-) (North
> Staffordshire)
>
> Bit far for me...
>
> Others comments make some sense, butchers though the lot of them ;-) When
> I did my IIa I actually replaced the door pillars, footwells and gubbins
> while I was putting it all back together so never had these problems as I
> built mine to fit properly ;-)
>
> Lee D
>
>
So you've built yours correctly and I'm expecting mine to bolt straight on.
Both of us would therefore fail the LR entrance exam....


 
>>>
>>>It sounds like the bulkhead holes are too wide if you're talking of
>>>spreading the chassis rails. SPREAD THE CHASSIS RAILS???. Jeez man, pull
>>>the door pillars in, as Tom says with a ratchet strap or summat but don't
>>>spread the chassis,
>>>
>>>Martin
>>>
>>
>> Thanks - point noted. Do I need ratchets or could I use rope and a stick
>> to twist in tension?
>> Jon
>
> That'll do nicely!
One more question - I take it that the rope goes around the pillars at the
lowest practical point - i.e.between the chassis top and footwell bottom so
I don't need to compress the bulkhead along the whole length of the pillers.
I'll place some blocks against the pillars and then some layers of slippery
plastic (Tescos bags) on top for the rope to slide on.
I'll have one end of the bulkhead bolted on slightly loose and I'll see if
there's some ratchets at work I can borrow as well.
Does that sound like a plan?
Thanks,
Jon


 
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 07:58:34 +0100, Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...
> I'll place some blocks against the pillars and then some layers of
> slippery
> plastic (Tescos bags) on top for the rope to slide on.
> I'll have one end of the bulkhead bolted on slightly loose and I'll see
> if
> there's some ratchets at work I can borrow as well.
> Does that sound like a plan?

Anything, to spread the load and ensure there's no unwanted slippage.

I'd be inclined to start with a length of webbing.

Whereabouts in Surrey?
--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8
 
"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> So you've built yours correctly and I'm expecting mine to bolt straight
> on. Both of us would therefore fail the LR entrance exam....

Yeah, though looking at the rest of the vehicle build it should really have
been plainly obvious it's normal ;-)

Lee D


 
Oily wrote:
> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Oily" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Ive always used the big lever/ratchet strap/ropes+pulleys/lots of
>>>>> mates approach to get bulkheads lined up.
>>>>> You can twist it a fair bit to get stuff lined up.
>>>> I've never fitted one but I've removed a couple without difficulty -
> are
>>>> they normally a pig to get on?
>>>> I thought of using my 30t bottle jack on the chassis rails to spread
> them
>>>> enough to get the bolt in - any tips for doing this?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It sounds like the bulkhead holes are too wide if you're talking of
>>> spreading the chassis rails. SPREAD THE CHASSIS RAILS???. Jeez man,
> pull
>>> the door pillars in, as Tom says with a ratchet strap or summat but
> don't
>>> spread the chassis,
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>> Thanks - point noted. Do I need ratchets or could I use rope and a stick
> to
>> twist in tension?
>> Jon
>>
>>
> Might be better with a Hi-Lift jack to pull the door pillars together with a
> bit of wood on the outsides to stop damage. You will need one of the longer
> ones. I can't see why a good rope and bar wouldn't pull it in that much
> though.
>
> Martin
>
>
Some of you guys are getting lost in the fog. You go on about Landrovers
and all the modifications you can do to them, but when a problem comes
along ( some of you ) fall over . If the 2 bolt holes are 1500 mm apart
and there is a discrepancy of 10mm then I make that about 1.5%
tolerance, thats pretty good for British engineering. People forget we
used to rule the engineering world and now we dont . Please don't expect
you Landrover to be built to Japanese tolerances . The question is what
would they have done in the factory? Spreading the chassis is out for
a start! Ratchet straps sound good , but I suspect they would have had 2
tapering pins going from about 1/4" up to the diameter of the bolts ,
these pins would have been about a foot long they would have loosely
fitted the pins in the bulk head and then inserted the 1/4" ends in the
chassis , then while 2 blokes held the bulkhead vertical 2 other blokes
would have leathered **** out of the pins and bulkhead until the
bulkhead slid up the pins and stretched to fit the chassis rails .
This would have been carried out in the "Alignment bay" after all they
would have been doing dozens abd dozens of these everyday. I've never
worked at Landrover , but I have worked in British engineering long
enough........

Al
(R L Driver is having a rest)
 
Al Gorithm wrote:
> Oily wrote:
>> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "Oily" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> Ive always used the big lever/ratchet strap/ropes+pulleys/lots of
>>>>>> mates approach to get bulkheads lined up.
>>>>>> You can twist it a fair bit to get stuff lined up.
>>>>> I've never fitted one but I've removed a couple without difficulty -
>> are
>>>>> they normally a pig to get on?
>>>>> I thought of using my 30t bottle jack on the chassis rails to spread
>> them
>>>>> enough to get the bolt in - any tips for doing this?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It sounds like the bulkhead holes are too wide if you're talking of
>>>> spreading the chassis rails. SPREAD THE CHASSIS RAILS???. Jeez man,
>> pull
>>>> the door pillars in, as Tom says with a ratchet strap or summat but
>> don't
>>>> spread the chassis,
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>> Thanks - point noted. Do I need ratchets or could I use rope and a
>>> stick
>> to
>>> twist in tension?
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>> Might be better with a Hi-Lift jack to pull the door pillars together
>> with a
>> bit of wood on the outsides to stop damage. You will need one of the
>> longer
>> ones. I can't see why a good rope and bar wouldn't pull it in that much
>> though.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
> Some of you guys are getting lost in the fog. You go on about Landrovers
> and all the modifications you can do to them, but when a problem comes
> along ( some of you ) fall over . If the 2 bolt holes are 1500 mm apart
> and there is a discrepancy of 10mm then I make that about 1.5%
> tolerance, thats pretty good for British engineering. People forget we
> used to rule the engineering world and now we dont . Please don't expect
> you Landrover to be built to Japanese tolerances . The question is what
> would they have done in the factory? Spreading the chassis is out for
> a start! Ratchet straps sound good , but I suspect they would have had 2
> tapering pins going from about 1/4" up to the diameter of the bolts ,
> these pins would have been about a foot long they would have loosely
> fitted the pins in the bulk head and then inserted the 1/4" ends in the
> chassis , then while 2 blokes held the bulkhead vertical 2 other blokes
> would have leathered **** out of the pins and bulkhead until the
> bulkhead slid up the pins and stretched to fit the chassis rails .
> This would have been carried out in the "Alignment bay" after all they
> would have been doing dozens abd dozens of these everyday. I've never
> worked at Landrover , but I have worked in British engineering long
> enough........
>
> Al
> (R L Driver is having a rest)


Thats leathered **** as in clobbered it with big hammers sorry
Al
 
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:43:06 +0100, "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Ive always used the big lever/ratchet strap/ropes+pulleys/lots of
>> mates approach to get bulkheads lined up.
>> You can twist it a fair bit to get stuff lined up.
>I've never fitted one but I've removed a couple without difficulty - are
>they normally a pig to get on?

the 3 or 4 ive done have been. The easiest approach is to weld the
legs onto the bulkhead with it in place on the chassis. precision fit
then!

As you seem to have worked out - you want to bend the legs to fit the
chassis. It doesnt take much to move them a bit.

 

"Al Gorithm" <[email protected]> wrote :-


> Some of you guys are getting lost in the fog. You go on about Landrovers
> and all the modifications you can do to them, but when a problem comes
> along ( some of you ) fall over . If the 2 bolt holes are 1500 mm apart
> and there is a discrepancy of 10mm then I make that about 1.5%
> tolerance, thats pretty good for British engineering. People forget we
> used to rule the engineering world and now we dont . Please don't expect
> you Landrover to be built to Japanese tolerances . The question is what
> would they have done in the factory? Spreading the chassis is out for
> a start! Ratchet straps sound good , but I suspect they would have had 2
> tapering pins going from about 1/4" up to the diameter of the bolts ,
> these pins would have been about a foot long they would have loosely
> fitted the pins in the bulk head and then inserted the 1/4" ends in the
> chassis , then while 2 blokes held the bulkhead vertical 2 other blokes
> would have leathered **** out of the pins and bulkhead until the
> bulkhead slid up the pins and stretched to fit the chassis rails .
> This would have been carried out in the "Alignment bay" after all they
> would have been doing dozens abd dozens of these everyday. I've never
> worked at Landrover , but I have worked in British engineering long
> enough........
>
> Al
> (R L Driver is having a rest)

I think you are "getting lost in the fog" as you put it. If you (or
Landrover) used taper pins to align the holes then when removing them to fit
the bolts the door pillars would just spring back again, nothing gained.

A bulkhead is quite flexible until it is bolted to the chassis and if one
end is secured to the chassis outrigger you would probably get the other
side in by just knee pressure on the pillar.

It's no wonder British engineering has gone to the dogs if they work to a
**** poor 1.5% tolerance but in my experience it's a good job they don't and
if you still work in that industry I would imagine you are exaggerating
somewhat. :)

Martin


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Oily" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Al Gorithm" <[email protected]> wrote :-
>
>
> > Some of you guys are getting lost in the fog. You go on about Landrovers
> > and all the modifications you can do to them, but when a problem comes
> > along ( some of you ) fall over . If the 2 bolt holes are 1500 mm apart
> > and there is a discrepancy of 10mm then I make that about 1.5%
> > tolerance, thats pretty good for British engineering. People forget we
> > used to rule the engineering world and now we dont . Please don't expect
> > you Landrover to be built to Japanese tolerances . The question is what
> > would they have done in the factory? Spreading the chassis is out for
> > a start! Ratchet straps sound good , but I suspect they would have had 2
> > tapering pins going from about 1/4" up to the diameter of the bolts ,
> > these pins would have been about a foot long they would have loosely
> > fitted the pins in the bulk head and then inserted the 1/4" ends in the
> > chassis , then while 2 blokes held the bulkhead vertical 2 other blokes
> > would have leathered **** out of the pins and bulkhead until the
> > bulkhead slid up the pins and stretched to fit the chassis rails .
> > This would have been carried out in the "Alignment bay" after all they
> > would have been doing dozens abd dozens of these everyday. I've never
> > worked at Landrover , but I have worked in British engineering long
> > enough........
> >
> > Al
> > (R L Driver is having a rest)
>
> I think you are "getting lost in the fog" as you put it. If you (or
> Landrover) used taper pins to align the holes then when removing them to fit
> the bolts the door pillars would just spring back again, nothing gained.
>
> A bulkhead is quite flexible until it is bolted to the chassis and if one
> end is secured to the chassis outrigger you would probably get the other
> side in by just knee pressure on the pillar.
>
> It's no wonder British engineering has gone to the dogs if they work to a
> **** poor 1.5% tolerance but in my experience it's a good job they don't and
> if you still work in that industry I would imagine you are exaggerating
> somewhat. :)
>
> Martin
>
>

It's considerably more likely, in the Series days, that if a component
couldn't be fitted relatively easily they would simply scrap it and
get another - loss of bonuses would prevent any time being wasted
on it.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:42:12 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

> In message <[email protected]>
> "Oily" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Al Gorithm" <[email protected]> wrote :-
>>
>>
>> > Some of you guys are getting lost in the fog. You go on about
>> Landrovers
>> > and all the modifications you can do to them, but when a problem comes
>> > along ( some of you ) fall over . If the 2 bolt holes are 1500 mm
>> apart
>> > and there is a discrepancy of 10mm then I make that about 1.5%
>> > tolerance, thats pretty good for British engineering. People forget we
>> > used to rule the engineering world and now we dont . Please don't
>> expect
>> > you Landrover to be built to Japanese tolerances . The question is
>> what
>> > would they have done in the factory? Spreading the chassis is out
>> for
>> > a start! Ratchet straps sound good , but I suspect they would have
>> had 2
>> > tapering pins going from about 1/4" up to the diameter of the bolts ,
>> > these pins would have been about a foot long they would have
>> loosely
>> > fitted the pins in the bulk head and then inserted the 1/4" ends in
>> the
>> > chassis , then while 2 blokes held the bulkhead vertical 2 other
>> blokes
>> > would have leathered **** out of the pins and bulkhead until the
>> > bulkhead slid up the pins and stretched to fit the chassis rails .
>> > This would have been carried out in the "Alignment bay" after all they
>> > would have been doing dozens abd dozens of these everyday. I've never
>> > worked at Landrover , but I have worked in British engineering long
>> > enough........
>> >
>> > Al
>> > (R L Driver is having a rest)
>>
>> I think you are "getting lost in the fog" as you put it. If you (or
>> Landrover) used taper pins to align the holes then when removing them
>> to fit
>> the bolts the door pillars would just spring back again, nothing gained.
>>
>> A bulkhead is quite flexible until it is bolted to the chassis and if
>> one
>> end is secured to the chassis outrigger you would probably get the other
>> side in by just knee pressure on the pillar.
>>
>> It's no wonder British engineering has gone to the dogs if they work
>> to a
>> **** poor 1.5% tolerance but in my experience it's a good job they
>> don't and
>> if you still work in that industry I would imagine you are exaggerating
>> somewhat. :)
>>
>
> It's considerably more likely, in the Series days, that if a component
> couldn't be fitted relatively easily they would simply scrap it and
> get another - loss of bonuses would prevent any time being wasted
> on it.

heh - ok, if you say so :)

A trip round the Montego line way back when was enlightening to say the
least.

Didn't actually see anything like that when I went to Solihul around the
same time - the section where they make/build/construct
any-part-for-any-vehicle[1] was far more interesting.

[1] LR products only - of course
--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8
 

Jon wrote:
> >>>
> >>>It sounds like the bulkhead holes are too wide if you're talking of
> >>>spreading the chassis rails. SPREAD THE CHASSIS RAILS???. Jeez man, pull
> >>>the door pillars in, as Tom says with a ratchet strap or summat but don't
> >>>spread the chassis,
Sounds to me as though your chassis has lightweight bulkhead outriggers
fitted instead of civy ones
Kevin

 
William Tasso wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:42:12 +0100, beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In message <[email protected]>
>> "Oily" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Al Gorithm" <[email protected]> wrote :-
>>>
>>>
>>> > Some of you guys are getting lost in the fog. You go on about
>>> Landrovers
>>> > and all the modifications you can do to them, but when a problem comes
>>> > along ( some of you ) fall over . If the 2 bolt holes are 1500 mm
>>> apart
>>> > and there is a discrepancy of 10mm then I make that about 1.5%
>>> > tolerance, thats pretty good for British engineering. People forget we
>>> > used to rule the engineering world and now we dont . Please don't
>>> expect
>>> > you Landrover to be built to Japanese tolerances . The question is
>>> what
>>> > would they have done in the factory? Spreading the chassis is out
>>> for
>>> > a start! Ratchet straps sound good , but I suspect they would have
>>> had 2
>>> > tapering pins going from about 1/4" up to the diameter of the bolts ,
>>> > these pins would have been about a foot long they would have
>>> loosely
>>> > fitted the pins in the bulk head and then inserted the 1/4" ends in
>>> the
>>> > chassis , then while 2 blokes held the bulkhead vertical 2 other
>>> blokes
>>> > would have leathered **** out of the pins and bulkhead until the
>>> > bulkhead slid up the pins and stretched to fit the chassis rails .
>>> > This would have been carried out in the "Alignment bay" after all they
>>> > would have been doing dozens abd dozens of these everyday. I've never
>>> > worked at Landrover , but I have worked in British engineering long
>>> > enough........
>>> >
>>> > Al
>>> > (R L Driver is having a rest)
>>>
>>> I think you are "getting lost in the fog" as you put it. If you (or
>>> Landrover) used taper pins to align the holes then when removing them
>>> to fit
>>> the bolts the door pillars would just spring back again, nothing gained.
>>>
>>> A bulkhead is quite flexible until it is bolted to the chassis and
>>> if one
>>> end is secured to the chassis outrigger you would probably get the other
>>> side in by just knee pressure on the pillar.
>>>
>>> It's no wonder British engineering has gone to the dogs if they work
>>> to a
>>> **** poor 1.5% tolerance but in my experience it's a good job they
>>> don't and
>>> if you still work in that industry I would imagine you are exaggerating
>>> somewhat. :)
>>>
>>
>> It's considerably more likely, in the Series days, that if a component
>> couldn't be fitted relatively easily they would simply scrap it and
>> get another - loss of bonuses would prevent any time being wasted
>> on it.
>
> heh - ok, if you say so :)
>
> A trip round the Montego line way back when was enlightening to say the
> least.
>
> Didn't actually see anything like that when I went to Solihul around the
> same time - the section where they make/build/construct
> any-part-for-any-vehicle[1] was far more interesting.
>
> [1] LR products only - of course
> --William Tasso
>
> Land Rover - 110 V8
> Discovery - V8


My point being that the landrover bulkhead is fabricated up of about 30
pieces all fitted to a jig and then all welded up ,I think its likely
that the bulkhead would spring when removed from the Jig. 1.5 % of error
is not too bad really. People who have never worked in a factory may
well have whimsical ideas about "precision engineering". The reality
would surprise many people In the 50's 60's and 70's we used worn
out machine tools from before the war ( in my factory the oldest machine
in daily use was 1929 ) which would wander out of tolerance all the
time. I agree with Tasso above , you are deluding yourself guys, look
what happened to the bike industry and now the car industry.

"they would simply scrap it and get another" ..... they were nearly all
out of tolerance.

Rant Rant.

No I dont work in engineering any more, but its all changed now with
modern NC machining , robot welders etc.

Al
RL driver is having a rest
 
In message <[email protected]>
"William Tasso" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:42:12 +0100, beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > "Oily" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "Al Gorithm" <[email protected]> wrote :-
> >>
> >>
> >> > Some of you guys are getting lost in the fog. You go on about
> >> Landrovers
> >> > and all the modifications you can do to them, but when a problem comes
> >> > along ( some of you ) fall over . If the 2 bolt holes are 1500 mm
> >> apart
> >> > and there is a discrepancy of 10mm then I make that about 1.5%
> >> > tolerance, thats pretty good for British engineering. People forget we
> >> > used to rule the engineering world and now we dont . Please don't
> >> expect
> >> > you Landrover to be built to Japanese tolerances . The question is
> >> what
> >> > would they have done in the factory? Spreading the chassis is out
> >> for
> >> > a start! Ratchet straps sound good , but I suspect they would have
> >> had 2
> >> > tapering pins going from about 1/4" up to the diameter of the bolts ,
> >> > these pins would have been about a foot long they would have
> >> loosely
> >> > fitted the pins in the bulk head and then inserted the 1/4" ends in
> >> the
> >> > chassis , then while 2 blokes held the bulkhead vertical 2 other
> >> blokes
> >> > would have leathered **** out of the pins and bulkhead until the
> >> > bulkhead slid up the pins and stretched to fit the chassis rails .
> >> > This would have been carried out in the "Alignment bay" after all they
> >> > would have been doing dozens abd dozens of these everyday. I've never
> >> > worked at Landrover , but I have worked in British engineering long
> >> > enough........
> >> >
> >> > Al
> >> > (R L Driver is having a rest)
> >>
> >> I think you are "getting lost in the fog" as you put it. If you (or
> >> Landrover) used taper pins to align the holes then when removing them
> >> to fit
> >> the bolts the door pillars would just spring back again, nothing gained.
> >>
> >> A bulkhead is quite flexible until it is bolted to the chassis and if
> >> one
> >> end is secured to the chassis outrigger you would probably get the other
> >> side in by just knee pressure on the pillar.
> >>
> >> It's no wonder British engineering has gone to the dogs if they work
> >> to a
> >> **** poor 1.5% tolerance but in my experience it's a good job they
> >> don't and
> >> if you still work in that industry I would imagine you are exaggerating
> >> somewhat. :)
> >>
> >
> > It's considerably more likely, in the Series days, that if a component
> > couldn't be fitted relatively easily they would simply scrap it and
> > get another - loss of bonuses would prevent any time being wasted
> > on it.
>
> heh - ok, if you say so :)
>
> A trip round the Montego line way back when was enlightening to say the
> least.
>
> Didn't actually see anything like that when I went to Solihul around the
> same time - the section where they make/build/construct
> any-part-for-any-vehicle[1] was far more interesting.
>
> [1] LR products only - of course

I never had the pleasure of visting the LR lines in Series days,
but I did spend quite a lot of time on the Rover 75 line during
pre-production. A component not fitting there during real
production potentially stopped the line while the probelm was
traced - any supplier getting it wrong was in for a very
large bill.....

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
In message <[email protected]>
Al Gorithm <[email protected]> wrote:

> William Tasso wrote:
> > On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:42:12 +0100, beamendsltd
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> In message <[email protected]>
> >> "Oily" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> "Al Gorithm" <[email protected]> wrote :-
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Some of you guys are getting lost in the fog. You go on about
> >>> Landrovers
> >>> > and all the modifications you can do to them, but when a problem comes
> >>> > along ( some of you ) fall over . If the 2 bolt holes are 1500 mm
> >>> apart
> >>> > and there is a discrepancy of 10mm then I make that about 1.5%
> >>> > tolerance, thats pretty good for British engineering. People forget we
> >>> > used to rule the engineering world and now we dont . Please don't
> >>> expect
> >>> > you Landrover to be built to Japanese tolerances . The question is
> >>> what
> >>> > would they have done in the factory? Spreading the chassis is out
> >>> for
> >>> > a start! Ratchet straps sound good , but I suspect they would have
> >>> had 2
> >>> > tapering pins going from about 1/4" up to the diameter of the bolts ,
> >>> > these pins would have been about a foot long they would have
> >>> loosely
> >>> > fitted the pins in the bulk head and then inserted the 1/4" ends in
> >>> the
> >>> > chassis , then while 2 blokes held the bulkhead vertical 2 other
> >>> blokes
> >>> > would have leathered **** out of the pins and bulkhead until the
> >>> > bulkhead slid up the pins and stretched to fit the chassis rails .
> >>> > This would have been carried out in the "Alignment bay" after all they
> >>> > would have been doing dozens abd dozens of these everyday. I've never
> >>> > worked at Landrover , but I have worked in British engineering long
> >>> > enough........
> >>> >
> >>> > Al
> >>> > (R L Driver is having a rest)
> >>>
> >>> I think you are "getting lost in the fog" as you put it. If you (or
> >>> Landrover) used taper pins to align the holes then when removing them
> >>> to fit
> >>> the bolts the door pillars would just spring back again, nothing gained.
> >>>
> >>> A bulkhead is quite flexible until it is bolted to the chassis and
> >>> if one
> >>> end is secured to the chassis outrigger you would probably get the other
> >>> side in by just knee pressure on the pillar.
> >>>
> >>> It's no wonder British engineering has gone to the dogs if they work
> >>> to a
> >>> **** poor 1.5% tolerance but in my experience it's a good job they
> >>> don't and
> >>> if you still work in that industry I would imagine you are exaggerating
> >>> somewhat. :)
> >>>
> >>
> >> It's considerably more likely, in the Series days, that if a component
> >> couldn't be fitted relatively easily they would simply scrap it and
> >> get another - loss of bonuses would prevent any time being wasted
> >> on it.
> >
> > heh - ok, if you say so :)
> >
> > A trip round the Montego line way back when was enlightening to say the
> > least.
> >
> > Didn't actually see anything like that when I went to Solihul around the
> > same time - the section where they make/build/construct
> > any-part-for-any-vehicle[1] was far more interesting.
> >
> > [1] LR products only - of course
> > --William Tasso
> >
> > Land Rover - 110 V8
> > Discovery - V8
>
>
> My point being that the landrover bulkhead is fabricated up of about 30
> pieces all fitted to a jig and then all welded up ,I think its likely
> that the bulkhead would spring when removed from the Jig. 1.5 % of error
> is not too bad really. People who have never worked in a factory may
> well have whimsical ideas about "precision engineering". The reality
> would surprise many people In the 50's 60's and 70's we used worn
> out machine tools from before the war ( in my factory the oldest machine
> in daily use was 1929 ) which would wander out of tolerance all the
> time. I agree with Tasso above , you are deluding yourself guys, look
> what happened to the bike industry and now the car industry.
>
> "they would simply scrap it and get another" ..... they were nearly all
> out of tolerance.
>
> Rant Rant.
>
> No I dont work in engineering any more, but its all changed now with
> modern NC machining , robot welders etc.

If only that were true...... ;-)

>
> Al
> RL driver is having a rest

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
On or around Wed, 6 Sep 2006 10:50:49 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

> It's no wonder British engineering has gone to the dogs if they work to a
>**** poor 1.5% tolerance but in my experience it's a good job they don't and
>if you still work in that industry I would imagine you are exaggerating
>somewhat. :)

Mind you, we're talking about a vehicle which, IIRC, the factory spec allows
one side to be 1" higher ride height than the other...

Ford used to have a policy of fitting body panels using 1/4" bolts in 1/2"
holes with penny washers, to allow for alignment, which is cheaper than
getting the holes in the right places.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.
 
>>>
>>>
>> 1536mm (60.5 in.) in my book (Land Rover Series III Manual 607314 Issue
>> 1,
>> page 76.10.02 Sheet 2) but it's not likely to be the same as the front
>> outriggers and theres no way you can guess how far in the holes are, I'll
>> measure it tomorrow.
>>
>> Martin
>>
I've just gone out to measure and the gearbox is in the way so I can't get
an 'easy' measure - however the rear tub is situated about 2" off the
chassis (on blocks) and all the holes look as if they'll line up and the
engine and gearbox have gone in without a hitch. As the bulkhead was
described as a military spare I can only presume that it's never been
'primed' for fitting and the chassis is fine.
My original thought of wrapping rope around the bulkhead and tensioning it
hadn't taken into account the gearbox. My thought now is to leave the
bulkhead attached on one side and lift the other side up using the hoist and
squeezing the bulkhead a little using rope / ratchet and lowering it back
down to check - repeating as necessary - any other suggestions / tips
gratefully received!
Jon - SWB SIII


 
"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So after absolutely months of slow (but steady) progress, I've tried to
> fit the bulkhead tonight, and the bolt holes don't align. The bulkhead
> appears to be 3/8" (or so) wider than the chassis.
> The chassis is a new (well, about three years old) Richard's chassis and
> the bulkhead is an ex-army surplus one - I've disposed of the old chassis
> and bulkhead and have no 'factory' measurements or originals to compare to
> so I'm totally stuck.....
> Everything looks straight...
> Open to any and all suggestions........
> Thanks,
> Jon - SWB SIII
>
Guess what? It took me 10mins with a poundshop 1" ratchet strap......
Thanks again!
Jon SIII


 
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