Headgasket failure?

Hi guys,

It was all going so well yesterday Last things I did were change the fuel filter and clean up the engine compartment a bit. Engine seemed to be running fine before and after.

Anyone who's been following my pathetic tale of my adventures with a 2.5D NA, may remember that I had oil leaking from around the rocker cover a few weeks ago, possibly as a result of increased pressure in this area.

Anyways, onwards to today's problem

Blue\white smoke from startup and for about first 10 minutes of driving. At idle a small quantity of blue smoke.

Checked oil. Level now low end of normal. Was high end of normal a few days ago. Oil appearance normal.

Checked coolant level. No coolant in expansion tank which was full a few days ago. Exhaust fumes coming out of tank. Refilled expansion tank. Ran engine for a few minutes. Checked tank again and there is a film of oil in the water.

Am I correct to suspect the headgasket?

If this is the headgasket, do I need a genuine land rover repair kit or will a pattern one do - I would be interested to hear peoples recommendations about this.

There's a nice article on replacing the head gasket on a 2.5 N/A diesel here 2.5 N/A head gasket replacement - Land Rover Technical Archive - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum - I'm reading it furiously.

oil and water mixing is generally head/gasket,

Does sound like the head gasket if you can smell exhaust fumes in the expansion tank.

Yeah I'd say headgasket, not a hard job to do just have to be methodical and use a torque wrench ! White smoke is usually oil blue is usually water an seeing as your loosing both headgasket is the most prominent answer

Sorry got my colours the wrong way round white water, blue oil !

200tdi ayre said:

Yeah I'd say headgasket, not a hard job to do just have to be methodical and use a torque wrench ! White smoke is usually oil blue is usually water an seeing as your loosing both headgasket is the most prominent answer

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think you've got your smoke signals the wrong way round

johnlad said:

think you've got your smoke signals the wrong way round

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Look to my post above

200tdi ayre said:

Look to my post above

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yeah, but white is usually water, and blue usually oil

200tdi ayre said:

Sorry got my colours the wrong way round white water, blue oil !

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This one !

200tdi ayre said:

This one !

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you must of added that while i was typing

johnlad said:

you must of added that while i was typing

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Yep noticed as soon as I posted

Cheers guys.

I have a couple of torque wrenches and a small selection of sockets.

If it's not ****ing down in the morning, I might as well whip the head off.

It looks like the existing gasket/head has some sort of black silicone around it (this may be in addition to a gasket). Existing engine is a rebuilt mod.

Can I use silicone gasket instead of a 'real' gasket or do I need a proper gasket kit? Can I use a pattern gasket kit or do I need a genuine LR set? There is a pattern set available close to me which I probably lay my hands on quickly but I want a proper job so if I have to wait, I will.

sp00k said:

Cheers guys.

I have a couple of torque wrenches and a small selection of sockets.

If it's not ****ing down in the morning, I might as well whip the head off.

It looks like the existing gasket/head has some sort of black silicone around it (this may be in addition to a gasket). Existing engine is a rebuilt mod.

Can I use silicone gasket instead of a 'real' gasket or do I need a proper gasket kit? Can I use a pattern gasket kit or do I need a genuine LR set? There is a pattern set available close to me which I probably lay my hands on quickly but I want a proper job so if I have to wait, I will.

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no you cant use silicone instead of a gasket, personally i would buy an original equipment gasket as its not a job you want to do again in a hurry

You need a proper gasket mate! Elring make the "good" gaskets you will also need to check the head isn't warped or cracked too

It was a nice day today for a change, no sign of rain at all. Following the instructions I linked to earlier, I've managed to get to the point where I'm ready to remove the head - then I ran out of light, so I thought I would save the grand unveiling for another day.

I'll take some snaps once it's off to get some opinions on why it may have failed. I've not noticed any overheating issues, so hopefully it's down to incorrect fitting or failure of the gasket itself.

When I removed the 13mm bolts on either side of the injectors, the left hand bolt on each of them was not even hand tight. I'm guessing someone forgot to tighten them up. That can't have done the compression any favors.

As the oil level is over the max (presumably mixed with coolant), do I need to drain some before I remove the head? I know normally the oil is back in the sump, I'm just wondering in my nativity if it's possible for it to leak out of the head from the oil channels when I remove it.

Also on the subject of oil, once the engine is back together (assuming I can put it back and the head is not warped), is it worth running the engine up to temp for 10 mins or so with the existing water contaminated engine oil before replacing it - kind of like a little flush or should I replace it before running it? Just thinking with the oil not being up to temp, it's not going to drain very well.

Cheers guys.

you should really undo brass bung on lh side of block first to drain system ,drain water out of sump first then you can warm it a little

Thanks James Martin.

jamesmartin said:

you should really undo brass bung on lh side of block first to drain system

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Is that no 8 on this diagram? My engine block is painted military green, so I can't see what's brass etc, everything just looks the same.

drain water out of sump first then you can warm it a little

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Good plan.

yep that it ,13mm

jamesmartin said:

yep that it ,13mm

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Cheers and thanks for your help.

Today's stupid question! I will be wanting to turn the engine over by hand. The nut on the crankshaft looks massive - I've not nothing that will be anywhere close to fitting that, so would have to buy especially. Does anyone know what size it is and is this the correct place to turn the engine?

Also, if I remove the glowplugs so that there's no compression, would it be possible to turn the crank by hand without using any tools?